Chargeback and return of faulty goods

Booster1234

Okell said:

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

There is some nuance in the idea of 'invoking your rights' here, as the approach was quite simply, I contacted the bank for advice. I did not go to the bank and say 'please issue a chargeback.' I explained the situation, and they asked me for evidence of our attempts to contact the merchant, plus the purchase receipt, etc, which I provided, and they advised their customer services team would investigate further. I then received an email on 26th September advising we have been issued a chargeback in our favour (I'm paraphrasing). My understanding was as we had purchased an item on CC we had Section 75 protection which was what I had imagined the issue would be investigated against. As before, you don't know what you don't know, and quite simply, we didn't. 

But still not the merchants problem is it? Looks like the merchant just missed the deadline to contest the chargeback but doesn't stop them pursuing you as they no longer have your money or the item they sold you and you disposed of.

If they've missed a deadline to contest (I don't know what deadline they were issued), nor engaged with me to resolve the issue of a faulty item within their clearly stated returns/damages window before I approached the bank, then I'd argue that yes, that IS the merchant's problem.

Either way, it is what it is - I can't retrieve an item from the tip so I'll let them know as much and see what happens from there. 

Do what @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head suggests for now, and hopefully the trader will not take it further*

I'm surprised your bank processed a chargeback at all without evidence you had returned the tap.  That was my understanding of how it worked.  @born_again will know.  I would have thought part of the process would be that your bank should have told you to return the item.  As it stands the trader is of the opinion that you have their item and you have not paid for it.

Unfortunately chargeback stands outside the legal process.  It's just an agreement between card issuers as to how they deal with certain payment disputes.  It has no effect on the legal relationship between consumer and trader and so doesn't prevent the trader from taking action against you*.

If the trader does take it further with you*, you could also try complaining to your bank that they never told you to return the goods


*I wouldn't worry about it for now.  As the_lunatic says it probably isn't worth the trader taking it any further for £100.  Only worry about it if you get a Letter Before Action or an actual court claim

Thanks, I've emailed them to let them know I don't have it. I guess worst case scenario would be they recharge the £100? 

At no point before we spoke to the bank though was it intended we would return the tap - we simply wanted the broken part replaced so it was useable. It had a damaged part, for which we simply wanted a working one. That's all. Eventually, we couldn't be without a fully functioning tap any longer so sought advice from the bank. We supplied all the evidence of that to Amex (plumber report, requests for new parts via the supplier's online form process because you can't speak to them via telephone etc, copies of unanswered emails chasing the part etc). But yes, at no point were we advised to return the damaged goods (nor would we know where/how as the 'returns' process is one that requires you to have a response from them 'agreeing' to the return, etc.). 

Anyway, I've emailed them and let them know. If we have to swallow the £100 then I guess that's that but I don't want to have it hanging over my head.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I think because the retailer was ignoring the request for the return that might be why the goods didn’t need to returned at the bank’s request, I believe the bank is permitted note a good reason as why the goods aren’t being returned when processing a chargeback. 

Alderbank

As @elsien said earlier, chargeback isn't a 'done deal'.

Retailer themselves have 45 days to respond from when its presented to them and banks have time to process the response after its received. The chargeback generates an initial refund which can be clawed back if the merchant successfully defends the claim... many are caught out when payment is taken back months later. 

You say the chargeback was presented on 26 September so still a couple of weeks left in the window for them to challenge.

In answer to a similar post here @born_again said
When did you get refund?
As that happens when chargeback is started. Retailer than has 45 days to contest.
If you win the chargeback, retailer can chase you as your still have the [goods].

The seller has now said to you that as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned. Presumably that would be the end of the matter.
I suspect if you ignore their request they will reverse the chargeback.
I agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head that your best course of action is to explain what has happened to the seller, apologise, and see what you can both agree to.

born_again

Alderbank said:

As @elsien said earlier, chargeback isn't a 'done deal'.

Retailer themselves have 45 days to respond from when its presented to them and banks have time to process the response after its received. The chargeback generates an initial refund which can be clawed back if the merchant successfully defends the claim... many are caught out when payment is taken back months later. 

You say the chargeback was presented on 26 September so still a couple of weeks left in the window for them to challenge.

In answer to a similar post here @born_again said
When did you get refund?
As that happens when chargeback is started. Retailer than has 45 days to contest.
If you win the chargeback, retailer can chase you as your still have the [goods].

The seller has now said to you that as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned. Presumably that would be the end of the matter.
I suspect if you ignore their request they will reverse the chargeback.
I agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head that your best course of action is to explain what has happened to the seller, apologise, and see what you can both agree to.

If they are passed the 45 days. Then they can't. So would need to go the legal route.

Okell

born_again said:

Alderbank said:

As @elsien said earlier, chargeback isn't a 'done deal'.

Retailer themselves have 45 days to respond from when its presented to them and banks have time to process the response after its received. The chargeback generates an initial refund which can be clawed back if the merchant successfully defends the claim... many are caught out when payment is taken back months later. 

You say the chargeback was presented on 26 September so still a couple of weeks left in the window for them to challenge.

In answer to a similar post here @born_again said
When did you get refund?
As that happens when chargeback is started. Retailer than has 45 days to contest.
If you win the chargeback, retailer can chase you as your still have the [goods].

The seller has now said to you that as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned. Presumably that would be the end of the matter.
I suspect if you ignore their request they will reverse the chargeback.
I agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head that your best course of action is to explain what has happened to the seller, apologise, and see what you can both agree to.

If they are passed the 45 days. Then they can't. So would need to go the legal route.

I think you've said before that a chargeback would fail if the goods were not returned.

Sould the bank have told the OP to return the tap?

Does it matter that - before the chargeback - the OP tried to return the tap to the trader but the trader refused to engage with them?

sheramber

Okell said:

born_again said:

Alderbank said:

As @elsien said earlier, chargeback isn't a 'done deal'.

Retailer themselves have 45 days to respond from when its presented to them and banks have time to process the response after its received. The chargeback generates an initial refund which can be clawed back if the merchant successfully defends the claim... many are caught out when payment is taken back months later. 

You say the chargeback was presented on 26 September so still a couple of weeks left in the window for them to challenge.

In answer to a similar post here @born_again said
When did you get refund?
As that happens when chargeback is started. Retailer than has 45 days to contest.
If you win the chargeback, retailer can chase you as your still have the [goods].

The seller has now said to you that as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned. Presumably that would be the end of the matter.
I suspect if you ignore their request they will reverse the chargeback.
I agree with @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head that your best course of action is to explain what has happened to the seller, apologise, and see what you can both agree to.

If they are passed the 45 days. Then they can't. So would need to go the legal route.

I think you've said before that a chargeback would fail if the goods were not returned.

Sould the bank have told the OP to return the tap?

Does it matter that - before the chargeback - the OP tried to return the tap to the trader but the trader refused to engage with them?

The OP did not ask to return the broken tap. They asked for the faulty part to be replaced.

That could Becky there was a daly in replying, as the returns department would not cater for replacing broken parts, if such a thing was possible. 

The taps probably came as a complete unit. 

born_again

Okell said:

I think you've said before that a chargeback would fail if the goods were not returned.

Sould the bank have told the OP to return the tap?

Does it matter that - before the chargeback - the OP tried to return the tap to the trader but the trader refused to engage with them?

Depends on just what OP said to them. We do advise that should be returned. But if company is not responding we can try, but that it may reject & there is only one chance. So advise them to keep trying.

born_again

sheramber said:

The OP did not ask to return the broken tap. They asked for the faulty part to be replaced.

That could Becky there was a daly in replying, as the returns department would not cater for replacing broken parts, if such a thing was possible. 

The taps probably came as a complete unit. 

There is no chargeback that would cover this.

Jumblebumble

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

On the contrary the OP has the money and the merchant has no tap which is very much the merchants problem.
The merchant now has to spend their time trying to get their money back if they are so inclined. If the merchant has write off the value of the tap  the merchant has not lost £100 they have lost the wholesale cost of the tap and  can also claim the VAT back if they are VAT registered.
As the merchant did not bother to reply to the OP  hoping that they could keep the profit on faulty goods they have got everything they deserve

Booster1234

Thanks all, much appreciated. I've emailed them and explained the situation so will see what they respond with on this. Nothing else I can really do. It is what it is at this point - I just hope they respond soon so I can put it to rest as it's the kind of silly first-world problem I'll worry about that will drive my husband mad. Thanks again.