Chargeback and return of faulty goods

Booster1234

We purchased a relatively low-value item in July (a kitchen tap). When our plumber tried to install it, he advised one of the parts was faulty and we'd need to request a new part from the provider. We contacted them, repeatedly, for the next month without response. I contacted our credit card provider in the end as we had a useless tap, and were just over £100 out of pocket. They asked for all sorts of evidence of out communication/contact etc with the supplier, which I provided, and they issued a chargeback in our favour on 26th September. At this point, I (perhaps mistakenly?) understood the issue was resolved. We still had never heard a peep out of the supplier, so we disposed of the faulty item and purchased new. Yesterday, I received an email from the supplier (the first we've had!) saying as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned! I contacted Amex who said we can either ignore it as we don't have the item, or we could contact the supplier and explain this, but I have concerns about both of these options, so can anyone advise what we do? At no point were we told we should keep the faulty item! I'm not good with this kind of thing and it will play on my mind if not resolved. Would greatly appreciate any advice and please, I've been jumped on before because I didn't know what I didn't know and I did not know (nor was told!) that I should keep/return the faulty item when I hadn't heard a peep out of the provider. Thanks in advance for all your help.

elsien

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Grumpy_chap

Booster1234 said:

We purchased a relatively low-value item in July (a kitchen tap). When our plumber tried to install it, he advised one of the parts was faulty and we'd need to request a new part from the provider. We contacted them, repeatedly, for the next month without response. I contacted our credit card provider in the end as we had a useless tap, and were just over £100 out of pocket. They asked for all sorts of evidence of out communication/contact etc with the supplier, which I provided, and they issued a chargeback in our favour on 26th September. At this point, I (perhaps mistakenly?) understood the issue was resolved. We still had never heard a peep out of the supplier, so we disposed of the faulty item and purchased new. Yesterday, I received an email from the supplier (the first we've had!) saying as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned! I contacted Amex who said we can either ignore it as we don't have the item, or we could contact the supplier and explain this, but I have concerns about both of these options, so can anyone advise what we do? At no point were we told we should keep the faulty item! I'm not good with this kind of thing and it will play on my mind if not resolved. Would greatly appreciate any advice and please, I've been jumped on before because I didn't know what I didn't know and I did not know (nor was told!) that I should keep/return the faulty item when I hadn't heard a peep out of the provider. Thanks in advance for all your help.

Chargeback is the modern equivalent of stopping the cheque.

The bank refunded you but recovered the money from the retailer.  From the retailer's perspective, you now have the item and have not paid for it.  The retailer either wants paying or the item back.  The retailer has no way to know whether you have the item or disposed of it, not does that make a difference to the retailer.

In some cases, retailers have pursued debt recovery.  Whether this retailer will for £100 is a gamble.

Booster1234

Grumpy_chap said:

Booster1234 said:

We purchased a relatively low-value item in July (a kitchen tap). When our plumber tried to install it, he advised one of the parts was faulty and we'd need to request a new part from the provider. We contacted them, repeatedly, for the next month without response. I contacted our credit card provider in the end as we had a useless tap, and were just over £100 out of pocket. They asked for all sorts of evidence of out communication/contact etc with the supplier, which I provided, and they issued a chargeback in our favour on 26th September. At this point, I (perhaps mistakenly?) understood the issue was resolved. We still had never heard a peep out of the supplier, so we disposed of the faulty item and purchased new. Yesterday, I received an email from the supplier (the first we've had!) saying as the item was in chargeback they would now like the item returned! I contacted Amex who said we can either ignore it as we don't have the item, or we could contact the supplier and explain this, but I have concerns about both of these options, so can anyone advise what we do? At no point were we told we should keep the faulty item! I'm not good with this kind of thing and it will play on my mind if not resolved. Would greatly appreciate any advice and please, I've been jumped on before because I didn't know what I didn't know and I did not know (nor was told!) that I should keep/return the faulty item when I hadn't heard a peep out of the provider. Thanks in advance for all your help.

Chargeback is the modern equivalent of stopping the cheque.

The bank refunded you but recovered the money from the retailer.  From the retailer's perspective, you now have the item and have not paid for it.  The retailer either wants paying or the item back.  The retailer has no way to know whether you have the item or disposed of it, not does that make a difference to the retailer.

In some cases, retailers have pursued debt recovery.  Whether this retailer will for £100 is a gamble.

Thanks, so what would you suggest I do at this point? Contact them to say I don't have it? I understand the facts, but no idea on the action at this point. 

Booster1234

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Given the supplier ignored you and forced you to a chargeback I can't see they will have mitigated their losses so if they went to court for £100 by the time they pay the filing fee, the hearing fee and attend the court they are going to be in the red.

I'd advise the supplier the bank didn't advise the part was to be returned as a part of the chargeback process, they (the supplier) ignored your communications for over a month and as such tap was disposed off. It's very doubtful they will go any further it (if they have any sense).

Isthisforreal99

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

Booster1234

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

There is some nuance in the idea of 'invoking your rights' here, as the approach was quite simply, I contacted the bank for advice. I did not go to the bank and say 'please issue a chargeback.' I explained the situation, and they asked me for evidence of our attempts to contact the merchant, plus the purchase receipt, etc, which I provided, and they advised their customer services team would investigate further. I then received an email on 26th September advising we have been issued a chargeback in our favour (I'm paraphrasing). My understanding was as we had purchased an item on CC we had Section 75 protection which was what I had imagined the issue would be investigated against. As before, you don't know what you don't know, and quite simply, we didn't. 

Isthisforreal99

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

There is some nuance in the idea of 'invoking your rights' here, as the approach was quite simply, I contacted the bank for advice. I did not go to the bank and say 'please issue a chargeback.' I explained the situation, and they asked me for evidence of our attempts to contact the merchant, plus the purchase receipt, etc, which I provided, and they advised their customer services team would investigate further. I then received an email on 26th September advising we have been issued a chargeback in our favour (I'm paraphrasing). My understanding was as we had purchased an item on CC we had Section 75 protection which was what I had imagined the issue would be investigated against. As before, you don't know what you don't know, and quite simply, we didn't. 

But still not the merchants problem is it? Looks like the merchant just missed the deadline to contest the chargeback but doesn't stop them pursuing you as they no longer have your money or the item they sold you and you disposed of.

Booster1234

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

There is some nuance in the idea of 'invoking your rights' here, as the approach was quite simply, I contacted the bank for advice. I did not go to the bank and say 'please issue a chargeback.' I explained the situation, and they asked me for evidence of our attempts to contact the merchant, plus the purchase receipt, etc, which I provided, and they advised their customer services team would investigate further. I then received an email on 26th September advising we have been issued a chargeback in our favour (I'm paraphrasing). My understanding was as we had purchased an item on CC we had Section 75 protection which was what I had imagined the issue would be investigated against. As before, you don't know what you don't know, and quite simply, we didn't. 

But still not the merchants problem is it? Looks like the merchant just missed the deadline to contest the chargeback but doesn't stop them pursuing you as they no longer have your money or the item they sold you and you disposed of.

If they've missed a deadline to contest (I don't know what deadline they were issued), nor engaged with me to resolve the issue of a faulty item within their clearly stated returns/damages window before I approached the bank, then I'd argue that yes, that IS the merchant's problem.

Either way, it is what it is - I can't retrieve an item from the tip so I'll let them know as much and see what happens from there. 

Okell

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Booster1234 said:

elsien said:

A charge back isn’t a done deal because the retailer does have the right to challenge and sometimes it gets overturned. As part of that process, I suppose they may want to inspect the faulty item themselves.
However, in this case, you do have the independent evidence from your plumber. I’m not sure what the best thing for your next steps might be though.  

Thanks  - I guess that's the issue as I understand the facts, just no idea on the action. As they had never responded to the issues of the fault or provided an interest in understanding it, or supplying the faulty part, we had no idea we'd be required to keep it, so didn't. 

Playing Devils Advocate, the fact you didn't keep it is not the merchants problem. If you are going to invoke your rights you need to know what your obligations are also.

There is some nuance in the idea of 'invoking your rights' here, as the approach was quite simply, I contacted the bank for advice. I did not go to the bank and say 'please issue a chargeback.' I explained the situation, and they asked me for evidence of our attempts to contact the merchant, plus the purchase receipt, etc, which I provided, and they advised their customer services team would investigate further. I then received an email on 26th September advising we have been issued a chargeback in our favour (I'm paraphrasing). My understanding was as we had purchased an item on CC we had Section 75 protection which was what I had imagined the issue would be investigated against. As before, you don't know what you don't know, and quite simply, we didn't. 

But still not the merchants problem is it? Looks like the merchant just missed the deadline to contest the chargeback but doesn't stop them pursuing you as they no longer have your money or the item they sold you and you disposed of.

If they've missed a deadline to contest (I don't know what deadline they were issued), nor engaged with me to resolve the issue of a faulty item within their clearly stated returns/damages window before I approached the bank, then I'd argue that yes, that IS the merchant's problem.

Either way, it is what it is - I can't retrieve an item from the tip so I'll let them know as much and see what happens from there. 

Do what @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head suggests for now, and hopefully the trader will not take it further*

I'm surprised your bank processed a chargeback at all without evidence you had returned the tap.  That was my understanding of how it worked.  @born_again will know.  I would have thought part of the process would be that your bank should have told you to return the item.  As it stands the trader is of the opinion that you have their item and you have not paid for it.

Unfortunately chargeback stands outside the legal process.  It's just an agreement between card issuers as to how they deal with certain payment disputes.  It has no effect on the legal relationship between consumer and trader and so doesn't prevent the trader from taking action against you*.

If the trader does take it further with you*, you could also try complaining to your bank that they never told you to return the goods


*I wouldn't worry about it for now.  As the_lunatic says it probably isn't worth the trader taking it any further for £100.  Only worry about it if you get a Letter Before Action or an actual court claim