Two fatal Accidents In my area

EnPointe

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:
I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

I note that you've restricted your own perception of this to single-carriageway roads where you need to pass in the oncoming carriageway.

None of those restrictions apply to this thread.

Overtaking on a multiple carriageway road within the speed limit is perfectly normal.

The second post of the thread I was replying to (I don't know how to multiple quote) says that in a 60mph speed limit they would consider overtaking somebody doing 55mph.

That implies a single carriageway, not really because of the speed limit as there are plenty of 60mph multiple carriageways, but because they would consider overtaking.

I am sure that is what that poster was saying.

What is the thread about. Overtaking within the speed limit on a multiple carriageway road is not dangerous most of the time, it's obvious isn't it?

An 'Advanced ' driver is also looking to make the  optimum safe progress within the constraints of their current vehicle and legal situation. There are many things that advanced drivers do, even if they are not  emergency services drivers with warning devices and  exemptions, that given the typical steering wheel operative connipations; such as - using the full extent of the road when there is a closure ahead , positioning for vision   and positioning to control  the space; plus of course effective use of all lanes of roundabouts to effect the  most timely  and 'making progress'  route through the hazard.  

EnPointe

MattMattMattUK said:

Tony5896 said:

I see no issue with driving at 50-55mph on a multi lane road where people are free to overtake as needed .. I do see issues where people drive at 55-60 mph and then don't increase speed while over taking .. I also see an issue where people crawl along single lane roads at 10mph or more less than than the posted limit ..  

I have more of an issue with those people who will crawl along at 30-45 mph on a single lane national speed limit road, but the moment someone starts to overtake them they suddenly decide to accelerate to 60, before dropping off again after the person has overtaken them or given up the attempt.

I had it on my way to work earlier this week, the road was 30, the car in front of me was doing around 18, never exceeded 20. The road then becomes 40, they kept doing 18, after ten seconds I went to overtake and as I got past them they floored it (they not only accelerated but I could hear their engine noise increase significantly). I completed the mauver but I was very tempted to stop in front of them and have some serious words.

People who choose to accelerate when someone else is overtaking them should be banned from driving for life. 

indeed  

 the  charitable  spin on this is that the individual suddenly 'wakes up' and realises  they are in the higher speed limit area, but fails to  make proper observation  before accelrating  , the  reality is the  overtaken driver  feels they should 'punish' the over taker for the heinous crime of  makes appropriate progress 

EnPointe

LightFlare said:

born_again said:

Tony5896 said:

I see no issue with driving at 50-55mph on a multi lane road where people are free to overtake as needed .. I do see issues where people drive at 55-60 mph and then don't increase speed while over taking .. I also see an issue where people crawl along single lane roads at 10mph or more less than than the posted limit ..  
  

The limit is advisory & subject to road conditions, not a target. 
Different drivers have different perception of what is safe. Simply take a look at the number caught speeding 🤷‍♀️

Def agree - also familiarity (or lack of) makes a huge difference.

Roads I know very very well, I could do at least 20mph more than people who aren’t familiar with it - especially at night

indeed  i also know people who are faster point to point  cross country  in 4 and a half tonnes of Fiat  Ducato or Mercedes Sprinter than they are in a  Skoda Scout or Volvo XC60 , because of the enhanced view the  Van  offers  despite a worse power to weight ratio  and  considerably worse  aerodynamices especially if the 'van' is box  body  rather than van body 

EnPointe

Emmia said:

matt_drummer said:

SiliconChip said:

You must have a different definition of "expensive" to me, this list of cars that will do 0-60 in under 3 seconds seems to feature cars that I would say are all expensive, although obviously some significantly more so than others. I'm not sure which of them you might consider not expensive but doesn't have a cheaper model with lesser performance (such as some of the BMWs and Teslas).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration#By_0%E2%80%9360_mph_(97_km/h)_(less_than_3.0_s)

Probably.

But I don't need to apologise for the position I am in. It's all relative. Most new cars are a lot of money but expensive must apply to those that cost the most.

I do realise that the car I drive is out of reach for most people.

I didn't say it was a cheap car, just not particularly expensive compared to the likes of supercars such as Ferrari, Lamborghini or some even more exotic cars.

I didn't say there wasn't a cheaper model, just not a cheaper model with the features I considered important to me.

However, cars in general have got much faster in recent years and I don't see any great leaps in driving standards, except downwards!

God help us when ancient Teslas find their way into the hands of newer drivers.

But even bog standard cars like Skoda's and VW's do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds these days.

It's beyond what many drivers can handle in my opinion.

It's too easy to get into a car now with performance beyond the capabilities of the people that buy them.

Modern cars are very fast, they need some respect and care when using that performance.

Impatience and aggression coupled with high performance is a recipe for disaster.

When I did driving lessons my instructor had the top engine spec in a Citroen saxo... A light vehicle with a decent engine. If you touched the accelerator / or thought about it... it went. 

My instructors perspective was that his pupils would pass and would probably have access to their parents cars, which weren't 1ltr jobbies - part of his tuition was being able to safely handle something with a bit more oomph.

i learnt in a 1.9 turbo diesel Peugeot  again similar thgouth processes 

leosayer

happyhacker said:

Oh why, Oh why, do people overtake! I always catch them up. They always break the speed limit as I go along at 55 - 58. I know it's a non post really and that you have to get to 70 to realise the folly. I think every road should have speed detectors. I don't want someone involving me in their accident! Not trying to be smug but just letting off steam.

There's more to safe driving than speed limit compliance.

Rather than complain about the driving of others, what have you done improve the safety of your own driving and avoid being caught up in someone else's accident?

Have you taken any advanced driver training?

caprikid1

"Do I have to declare a speeding offence if I took the optional training course instead of paying the fine and no points on licence?"

Given you have been caught speeding, more camera's and you might lose your license. Careful what you wish for.

Okell

x44 said:

Stubod said:

When I was working I tended to rushed everywhere, (but always careful to stay within speed limits.

Now retired I tend to take it steady and find it a lot more relaxing, and in  general doing similar journeys that used to be around 2 hours are only an extra few minutes longer....makes me wonder why people " rush" so much????

If i'm doing a 200 mile journey at 40 mph average its going to take me 5 hours, at 50 mph average its going to be 4 hours - hardly a few minutes.

I do such journeys which I do regularly as a similarly retired person to you.

Its mostly single carriagways...

Surely the point you are missing is that to reduce the time taken by 20% you have to increase your average speed by 25%.

You obviously think that increasing your average speed on single carriage way roads from 40mph to 50mph over a journey of 200 miles is a doddle.
 
In my experience such an increase on a 200 mile journey on single carriageways is not as simple as you think.  I'd have thought that to maintain a 50mph average for that length of time on a single carriageway would see you well over the speed limit for significant periods.

I used regularly to do a 120 mile journey on an A road and kept to all the speed limits* (mostly 60, a few 50s and 40s).  The first time I did I thought I would have averaged about 50 but was disapponted to see my average was 40mph


*Actually I'm fibbing a bit there... I would have kept to the 40s and 50s but I'm pretty certain I would have exceeded 60 insome places

Stubod

x44 said:

If i'm doing a 200 mile journey at 40 mph average its going to take me 5 hours, at 50 mph average its going to be 4 hours - hardly a few minutes.

I do such journeys which I do regularly as a similarly retired person to you.

Its mostly single carriagways and if I get stuck behind someone doing 50's I'm not bothered. If it 40's mph I try and get past as if I don't, I know excatly what will happen next. We will get stuck behind a tractor and the car doing the 40's will not be bothered about doing 35 behind the tractor and wont get past but me certianly is bothered and now I have to get past them both.  So we end up with the situation where I will try and get past everyone doing 50 or less wheras I probably would not if I knew they WOULD overtake the wretched tractor when we meet it.

Conversly when I'm stuck behind a lorry and I know most commercial traffic turns left at the next roundabout and I want to turn right I'll just accept the 40mph travel for a few miles to the junction as its just too must hassle/risk etc to overtake - or as the case often is I know there are no suitable straight overtaking sections anyway in the distance left to the junction.

..yes, but you won't "average 50"....compared to 40.....that's the problem.

I remember when cars first had "computers" that could calculate your average speed. Everybody I knew that had them ended up "averaging" around 36 mph regardless of journey distance and type.

I used to weekly commute arounf 120 miles. As a "test" I drove some journeys like a "loon", and others where I just took it steady. Overall time variation between the 2 was just a few minutes.

Okell

EnPointe said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:
I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

I note that you've restricted your own perception of this to single-carriageway roads where you need to pass in the oncoming carriageway.

None of those restrictions apply to this thread.

Overtaking on a multiple carriageway road within the speed limit is perfectly normal.

The second post of the thread I was replying to (I don't know how to multiple quote) says that in a 60mph speed limit they would consider overtaking somebody doing 55mph.

That implies a single carriageway, not really because of the speed limit as there are plenty of 60mph multiple carriageways, but because they would consider overtaking.

I am sure that is what that poster was saying.

What is the thread about. Overtaking within the speed limit on a multiple carriageway road is not dangerous most of the time, it's obvious isn't it?

...  There are many  things that advanced drivers do  even if they are not  emergency services drivers with  warning devices and  exemptions that given the typical steering wheel operative connipations such as  using the full extent of the road when there is a closure ahead , positioning fgor vision   and posistioning ot control  the space  plus of course effectvie use of  all lanes  of  roundabouts to effect the  most timely  and 'making progress'  route through the hazard  

Eh?             

EnPointe

Okell said:

EnPointe said:

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:
I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

I note that you've restricted your own perception of this to single-carriageway roads where you need to pass in the oncoming carriageway.

None of those restrictions apply to this thread.

Overtaking on a multiple carriageway road within the speed limit is perfectly normal.

The second post of the thread I was replying to (I don't know how to multiple quote) says that in a 60mph speed limit they would consider overtaking somebody doing 55mph.

That implies a single carriageway, not really because of the speed limit as there are plenty of 60mph multiple carriageways, but because they would consider overtaking.

I am sure that is what that poster was saying.

What is the thread about. Overtaking within the speed limit on a multiple carriageway road is not dangerous most of the time, it's obvious isn't it?

...  There are many  things that advanced drivers do  even if they are not  emergency services drivers with  warning devices and  exemptions that given the typical steering wheel operative connipations such as  using the full extent of the road when there is a closure ahead , positioning for vision   and positioning to control  the space  plus of course effective use of  all lanes  of  roundabouts to effect the  most timely  and 'making progress'  route through the hazard  

Eh?             

it's fine to admit you  are Steeering wheel operative, the question is are you willing to  develop into a driver , all of the above are things you  will be exposed to if you  undertake driver development activities  or even  just  watch content fro mthe likes of 'Bigjobber' or 'Reg Local'