Two fatal Accidents In my area

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

flashg67 said:

55-58 in what speed limit? if 70, I'm overtaking if it's safe. In a 60 then I may overtake if you're doing nearer 55. Just let people go - if they're ahead, hopefully you won't get caught in their accident...

How long does it take to get safely past a car doing 55mph when you are doing 60mph at most?

55mph is 24.6 metres per second.

Assuming a "safe" 2-second gap between vehicles, you'll be starting your overtaking manoeuvre 49.2 metres behind the other vehicle. You then need to pass the vehicle (another 5 metres) and get a safe distance in front (another 49.2 metres) before the manoeuvre is complete. Total distance travelled 103.4 metres.

If you're traveling at 60mph, you're 5mph faster and you'll be passing at 2.24 metres per second. So your manoeuvre will take (103.4 / 2.42) 46 seconds. In that time you'll travel 3/4 of a mile.

However you won't be committed to the manoeuvre for that entire time. For the first dizen seconds or so you'll be able to pull back in safely behind the vehicle you're passing, and similarly you could pull back in sooner after passing if circumstances demanded it. 

matt_drummer said:

Sounds quite risky to me?

With the right road conditions it could be entirely safe. With the wrong ones, it would be foolhardy (or worse).

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

55mph is 24.6 metres per second.

Assuming a "safe" 2-second gap between vehicles, you'll be starting your overtaking manoeuvre 49.2 metres behind the other vehicle. You then need to pass the vehicle (another 5 metres) and get a safe distance in front (another 49.2 metres) before the manoeuvre is complete. Total distance travelled 103.4 metres.

If you're traveling at 60mph, you're 5mph faster and you'll be passing at 2.24 metres per second. So your manoeuvre will take (103.4 / 2.42) 46 seconds. In that time you'll travel 3/4 of a mile.

However you won't be committed to the manoeuvre for that entire time. For the first dizen seconds or so you'll be able to pull back in safely behind the vehicle you're passing, and similarly you could pull back in sooner after passing if circumstances demanded it. 

matt_drummer said:

Sounds quite risky to me?

With the right road conditions it could be entirely safe. With the wrong ones, it would be foolhardy (or worse).

I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

It does not sound safe to me and not worth the risk just to go 5mph faster than the car in front.

I am sure I am not alone but I understand that some people may consider this a risk worth taking.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

QrizB

matt_drummer said:
I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

I note that you've restricted your own perception of this to single-carriageway roads where you need to pass in the oncoming carriageway.

None of those restrictions apply to this thread.

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

matt_drummer said:
I cannot think of any single carriageway that I have traveled on where I would be comfortable and consider it safe in a car to sit in the oncoming carriageway at 60mph for 46 seconds travelling 3/4 mile.

What are the right conditions that would make this manoeuvre entirely safe?

I note that you've restricted your own perception of this to single-carriageway roads where you need to pass in the oncoming carriageway.

None of those restrictions apply to this thread.

Overtaking on a multiple carriageway road within the speed limit is perfectly normal.

The second post of the thread I was replying to (I don't know how to multiple quote) says that in a 60mph speed limit they would consider overtaking somebody doing 55mph.

That implies a single carriageway, not really because of the speed limit as there are plenty of 60mph multiple carriageways, but because they would consider overtaking.

I am sure that is what that poster was saying.

What is the thread about. Overtaking within the speed limit on a multiple carriageway road is not dangerous most of the time, it's obvious isn't it?

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

Overtaking on a multiple carriageway road within the speed limit is perfectly normal.

Agreed.

matt_drummer said:

That implies a single carriageway, not really because of the speed limit as there are plenty of 60mph multiple carriageways, but because they would consider overtaking.

It seems to me (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you're only considering "single carriageway" to mean roads like this, where I'd agree that overtking a 55mph vehicle at 60 would probably be a bad idea:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gwDGUQ3THVQmjvj16 (the A421 near Thornborough).

But it also includes roads like this:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/UmyxvVDAdpe58eAa9 (the A5 near Watford Gap)
That stretch of A5 is straight with few juctions. Likely to be suitable.

Or roads with an overtaking lane:
https://safetycameras.gov.scot/news/news-archives/overtaking-lane-speed-limits/

So, even when looking exclusively at "single carriageway roads", there are going to be safe options.

matt_drummer

I wouldn't think about trying to overtake a vehicle in front of me travelling at 55mph on any of those roads by only travelling at 60mph and taking 46 seconds to get past.

Not worth the risk to me.

If I felt compelled to get past I would do it as quickly as I could using as much speed as the vehicle I was in could muster.

That is, I would break the law by exceeding the speed limit, as I suspect most people would.

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

I wouldn't think about trying to overtake a vehicle in front of me travelling at 55mph on any of those roads by only travelling at 60mph and taking 46 seconds to get past.
Not worth the risk to me.

That's clearly your choice to make.

matt_drummer said:

If I felt compelled to get past I would do it as quickly as I could using as much speed as the vehicle I was in could muster. That is, I would break the law by exceeding the speed limit

That too is your choice.

matt_drummer said:

... as I suspect most people would.

That however sounds more like you making excuses for your own hypothetical lawbreaking on the grounds that "everybody does it". A version of the bandwagon fallacy.

matt_drummer

Modern cars are very safe compared to those of the past.

The cars we drive today are also very fast, even quite mundane cars can accelerate faster than many supercars from only a few years ago.

However, I don't think the average persons driving skills have developed at the same pace as the performance of their cars have.

Modern cars are quiet and refined and I suspect many people don't have a real sense of how fast they are actually travelling at times.

The roads are more congested and in many places in poor condition.

I am surprised there are not more serious accidents on our roads.

My current car accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in less than 3 seconds, complete unnecessary, utterly ridiculous and positively dangerous in the wrong hands.

My opinion is that modern cars are too fast for many of their drivers and some people are in too much of a hurry for the driving skills they possess!

Arunmor

In my view the one thing drivers should do is drive over (the true) 56mph on motorways so as not to become a mobile chicane to the HGVs whose speedos will read a true 56mph.  For most cars that will mean an indicated slightly over 60mph.

matt_drummer

Arunmor said:

In my view the one thing drivers should do is drive over (the true) 56mph on motorways so as not to become a mobile chicane to the HGVs whose speedos will read a true 56mph.  For most cars that will mean an indicated slightly over 60mph.

Having driven more than a million miles in a 44 ton truck I fail to see the issue.

Most other LGV drivers (HGV's don't exist any more and haven't done for over 30 years) don't have any problem taking 3 miles to overtake another truck going 1mph less than they are so I don't see why a car should be any more of a problem to them. They were not to me.

One of the biggest problems driving a large truck is other trucks trying to overtake when they can barely manage it. I always backed off to make it easy for them and to ease the pain on everybody else, but most truck drivers just plough on mindlessly.

The big problem with cars is when they cut in a the last second at a junction and then hit the brakes! It's pretty scary in a fully loaded truck when some thoughtless idiot takes away your braking area.