Concealed close-coupled plastic toilet cistern - cannot find a replacement

grumpy_codger

Trying to help my friend...

 - the original cistern (with a new fixing bracket)

For the life of me I cannot find a replacement 

All concealed I see are 'low level', not 'close coupled'. Bought this one from Amazon hoping that I can use it without the pipe - and am returning it as the diameter of the flush valve (and the hole in the bottom) is bigger then the hole in the fixing bracket.

 

Any advice on what exactly to look for?

WIAWSNB

What needs fixing in the old one? Can that be repaired instead - at least you'll know it'll fit? 

Does the pan have a 'make' on it?

WIAWSNB

Doesn't close-coupled just require a large doughnut to seal betwixt the two items? 

Perhaps you chose the only weird cistern with a large outlet?!

Most seem standard; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326829604922?

grumpy_codger

WIAWSNB said:

Doesn't close-coupled just require a large doughnut to seal betwixt the two items? 

Yes, a large doughnut, but everything is held together and compressed by the steal bracket that in the top photo goes between the cistern and the big plastic nut.

Perhaps you chose the only weird cistern with a large outlet?!

Most seem standard; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326829604922?

Possibly, but the one I bought looked 'standard' too (don't get confused by the big white collar that connects the pipe to the flush valve:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeNEudS_U90

2:38

Unfortunately it's so rare to find detailed specifications in the internet shops, even at Screwfix,

WIAWSNB said:

What needs fixing in the old one? Can that be repaired instead - at least you'll know it'll fit? 

Does the pan have a 'make' on it?

It's very old and leaked, most likely because of the cracks in the bottom. Yes, it's possible to glue them, but the old plastic is likely to crack again.

WIAWSNB

I'm struggling to understand, sorry.
Does the pan have a sticky out back that goes in to the wall in order for the cistern to sit on it?
What is wrong with the old cistern - can't it be fixed instead?

grumpy_codger

WIAWSNB said:

I'm struggling to understand, sorry.
Does the pan have a sticky out back that goes in to the wall in order for the cistern to sit on it?
What is wrong with the old cistern - can't it be fixed instead?

Yes, it does. It goes into some sort of 'cabinet' housing the cistern and the pipes. 

WIAWSNB

So, the outlet pipe is a standard diameter, but the new one you bought was larger and wouldn't go into the pan? Blimey.
I thought they were standard.
Does the eBay one look ok? The metal holding bracket just goes on first, and then the large nut s rews on.

grumpy_codger

WIAWSNB said:

So, the outlet pipe is a standard diameter, but the new one you bought was larger and wouldn't go into the pan? Blimey.
I thought they were standard.
Does the eBay one look ok? The metal holding bracket just goes on first, and then the large nut s rews on.

Possibly it doesn't even have to go into the pan because of the 'doughnut'. The problem is that its diameter is bigger than than the one of the hole in the 'standard' bracket I bought:

     

WIAWSNB

The threaded outlet pipe should protrude far enough for the doughnut to fit over it and the plastic nut comfortably, and usually a bit more. Once in place, and the brackets bolts are done up, the doughnut gets squashed firmly, and I'd imagine the pipe does enter the hole in the pan a small amount.
Explain fully, please - what is the problem? The threaded pipe from the outlet valve is a larger diameter than you'd expect? It won't go into the receiving hole in the pan? Or is it that the new metal bracket won't fit over it?
Looking at you pic of the old cistern, that pipe protrudes a surprising amount - more than most, I think. I suspect, therefore, that the valve used in that cistern is a particular kind. Is it a 'syphon' type?
Can it be removed from the old cistern and fitted in the new? It might need a refurb - a new diaphragm for example but that's easy.
The fault you are trying to sort is what - cracks in the cistern body? The actual mechanism is ok?

WIAWSNB

https://www.toolstation.com/viva-skylo-dual-flush-syphon/p51299
It might not protrude as far, but could it work? Ie, fit this in the new cistern body. 

grumpy_codger

WIAWSNB said:

The threaded outlet pipe should protrude far enough for the doughnut to fit over it and the plastic nut comfortably, and usually a bit more. Once in place, and the brackets bolts are done up, the doughnut gets squashed firmly, and I'd imagine the pipe does enter the hole in the pan a small amount.
Explain fully, please - what is the problem? The threaded pipe from the outlet valve is a larger diameter than you'd expect? It won't go into the receiving hole in the pan? Or is it that the new metal bracket won't fit over it?

Yes, it's larger than both holes - in the pan and in the bracket.

Looking at you pic of the old cistern, that pipe protrudes a surprising amount - more than most, I think. I suspect, therefore, that the valve used in that cistern is a particular kind. Is it a 'syphon' type?

Yes.

Can it be removed from the old cistern and fitted in the new? It might need a refurb - a new diaphragm for example but that's easy.

If I fail to find a correct replacement, then possibly - as the last resort, and it's easy to buy a new one, but 

• the difference in diameters is pretty big (I can post the actual figures on Saturday)
• personally, I hate 'syphons' and it hardly makes sense to replace a new modern dual-flush valve with the archaic one. 

The fault you are trying to sort is what - cracks in the cistern body? The actual mechanism is ok?

It was leaking to the point that the floorboards needed replacing. The steal bracket and the bolts were corroded beyond imagination. Everything was covered with rust and scale. Actually, it wasn't my intention to replace it, but when I cleaned it I saw multiple cracks around the big hole - in the area that held the entire cistern that wasn't fixed to the wall and was fixed only to the  pan (unstable because of the rotten floorboards) and to a stiff soldered copper pipe.