On UC. Rejected for PIP, Shall i apply for ESA??

bradztheman

Around a month ago, i had to stop working due to severe dermatitis literally covering all of my body neck to feet. I can hardly move at all let alone walk, or do anything. I signed up to Universal Credit as i had to quit my job suddenly i had a MAJOR outbreak. The doctors signed me off and gave me a fit note which is renewable every month, and I got told by them i could be eligible for PIP as it was so bad, so I had a PIP interview of the phone, i wasn't really too sure what to expect, but i was honest and even told them i had to give up work because i physically can't move anymore i feel cabbaged! They asked me a series of questions and the assesment came through the post with all 0's for every single answer! Im sure this must be a mistake, im not too sure how to appeal but on the letter it says i could be eligible to claim ESA..

My question is, i am claiming universal credit but it has been knocked down massively because I'm classed as living with my partner who works, and for every £1 she earns they deduct 55p...
my statement came through saying i would get £429 for the month, which with my outgoings i can barely survive on, as appose to £1150 the original claim amount which has been deducted.

if i put in a claim for ESA, will this be FULLY deducted fully off my universal credit? Even though im classed as living with a partner etc or will i be any better off?

is it worth claiming?

KxMx

Yes ESA would be deducted in full from your UC award. 

I'd suggest using a benefits calculator, and contacting a local welfare rights organisation for assistance with PIP appeal if you feel you would get enough points to qualify for an award.

https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

https://advicefinder.turn2us.org.uk/

The UC Work Capability process should be underway, if you are awarded LCW this doesn't pay any extra money & you would be expected to engage with a work coach. 

If awarded LCWRA you wouldn't see a work coach and your UC award before deductions would increase by £427.

With either LCW or LCWRA you would have a work allowance on the claim, this is an amount of money that can be earned before UC make their standard deduction. 

If getting Housing Element it is £411, £684 if not.

Unless you already claim for a dependent child, in which case the work allowance would already apply. 

Muttleythefrog

As above ESA would be fully deducted from UC but you could try to get the health related element (which has the same assessment after 3 months as ESA) if not already getting... sounds like you might be in that process of assessment period.

Regarding PIP it is common for people to score zero points on initial application often because of poor strategy or poor history of evidence and ultimately lack of existing successful claim. However.. timeline here... suggestion your problems might have become bad a month ago. Just quoting from CAB to save my typing "To get PIP you must find it hard to do everyday tasks or get around because of a physical or mental condition. You must have found these things hard for 3 months and expect them to continue to be hard for another 9 months."

So make sure that condition is satisfied - you may not have suffered severely for long enough (I don't know and maybe they are unsure) and are you expecting treatment for example that could resolve or reduce symptoms over coming months.

You could ask for Mandatory Reconsideration for PIP - most often the decision is same but then it opens the door to appeal. Crucial is focussing on what descriptors (statements of disability) in all relevant of the 12 activities applies to you. Focus your arguments, examples, difficulties, help needed, aids used on such. Any supporting evidence you can get that is supportive or corroborative of what you claim you suffer and even better any relevant impacts on life would be helpful. 

"told them i had to give up work because i physically can't move anymore i feel cabbaged!" - you'll have to be far more specific in what you say in assessment, appeal, or in form filling... opens the door to an assessor thinking  'they had to physically move to use their phone so they're not credible'. 

Good luck with whatever you decide and remember you could also apply for PIP again in future if that became relevant.

bradztheman

I have just applied for ESA, pretty pointless really if it's just going to be deducted from my universal credit anyway..

so how do i apply for LCWRA? It seems the same as pip? Can i apply if im already on universal credit? Will i have to wait for my esa claim to come back?

Robbie64

bradztheman said:

I have just applied for ESA, pretty pointless really if it's just going to be deducted from my universal credit anyway..

so how do i apply for LCWRA? It seems the same as pip? Can i apply if im already on universal credit? Will i have to wait for my esa claim to come back?

It's worth applying for ESA as it's paid every two weeks, unlike UC which is once a month. Also, if your partner was to earn enough that UC ceases, you would still be paid ESA beyond a year if placed in the Support Group.

Muttleythefrog

bradztheman said:

I have just applied for ESA, pretty pointless really if it's just going to be deducted from my universal credit anyway..

so how do i apply for LCWRA? It seems the same as pip? Can i apply if im already on universal credit? Will i have to wait for my esa claim to come back?

Universal Credit has a health element which is either LCWRA or LCW and the same test (Work Capability Assessment - WCA) is applied as for ESA (LCWRA=Support group, LCW=Work related activity group). There's a 3 month assessment period during which you would not receive monies (but require 'fit notes') but hopefully would be assessed towards end of that period. If you were to be awarded ESA then the health element of UC would kick in as the status of ESA would be transferred over.

There can be advantages to getting new style ESA (even if it is deducted in full from a UC award as unearned income) but with politically induced benefit changes ahead it is not entirely clear how robust some are.

PIP and the WCA are differently assessed with very different criteria although the methodology and even assessment companies can be very familiar! Criteria for both are widely available online. CAB website is good.. and CAB themselves can be good for personalised support and advice if you ever needed it. 

bradztheman

Muttleythefrog said:

bradztheman said:

I have just applied for ESA, pretty pointless really if it's just going to be deducted from my universal credit anyway..

so how do i apply for LCWRA? It seems the same as pip? Can i apply if im already on universal credit? Will i have to wait for my esa claim to come back?

Universal Credit has a health element which is either LCWRA or LCW and the same test (Work Capability Assessment - WCA) is applied as for ESA (LCWRA=Support group, LCW=Work related activity group). There's a 3 month assessment period during which you would not receive monies (but require 'fit notes') but hopefully would be assessed towards end of that period. If you were to be awarded ESA then the health element of UC would kick in as the status of ESA would be transferred over.

There can be advantages to getting new style ESA (even if it is deducted in full from a UC award as unearned income) but with politically induced benefit changes ahead it is not entirely clear how robust some are.

PIP and the WCA are differently assessed with very different criteria although the methodology and even assessment companies can be very familiar! Criteria for both are widely available online. CAB website is good.. and CAB themselves can be good for personalised support and advice if you ever needed it. 

So basically i have to wait to hear back if ive been accepted for esa? How will i know, do they assess me?

so once on esa do i then contact u/c about applying for Lcwra?

Muttleythefrog

bradztheman said:

Muttleythefrog said:

bradztheman said:

I have just applied for ESA, pretty pointless really if it's just going to be deducted from my universal credit anyway..

so how do i apply for LCWRA? It seems the same as pip? Can i apply if im already on universal credit? Will i have to wait for my esa claim to come back?

Universal Credit has a health element which is either LCWRA or LCW and the same test (Work Capability Assessment - WCA) is applied as for ESA (LCWRA=Support group, LCW=Work related activity group). There's a 3 month assessment period during which you would not receive monies (but require 'fit notes') but hopefully would be assessed towards end of that period. If you were to be awarded ESA then the health element of UC would kick in as the status of ESA would be transferred over.

There can be advantages to getting new style ESA (even if it is deducted in full from a UC award as unearned income) but with politically induced benefit changes ahead it is not entirely clear how robust some are.

PIP and the WCA are differently assessed with very different criteria although the methodology and even assessment companies can be very familiar! Criteria for both are widely available online. CAB website is good.. and CAB themselves can be good for personalised support and advice if you ever needed it. 

So basically i have to wait to hear back if ive been accepted for esa? How will i know, do they assess me?

so once on esa do i then contact u/c about applying for Lcwra?

Yes after the 3 month waiting period you will face the Work Capability Assessment - I strongly suggest you look at the criteria widely available out there to qualify for the two groups and start seeking medical evidence or other evidence to support your claim. You'll be asked to form fill and likely have an assessment by assessment company like you did for PIP but very different criteria and benchmarks. But get familiar with the criteria and see if you will qualify - absolutely essential. 

If you did qualify for Support group or WRAG of ESA then that should transfer to UC as LCWRA or LCW - if it wasn't picked up at the time then just let them know in your journal.

KxMx

As you've submitted a Fit Note for UC, the process should be underway. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition-quick-guide/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition

Spoonie_Turtle

Sorry, just for my understanding, can I clarify something - you said about a month ago you had to stop work and claim UC, but you've also applied for PIP and had an assessment?  Is the timeframe of 'about a month' a typo?

It doesn't change any of the good advice given above but it's just a bit confusing.  It may also help work out whether you should have already had a UC referral for a Work Capability Assessment or not.

bradztheman

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Sorry, just for my understanding, can I clarify something - you said about a month ago you had to stop work and claim UC, but you've also applied for PIP and had an assessment?  Is the timeframe of 'about a month' a typo?

It doesn't change any of the good advice given above but it's just a bit confusing.  It may also help work out whether you should have already had a UC referral for a Work Capability Assessment or not.

I had to stop working yes, so immediately i signed up to universal credit. 

I was then told by friends i could probably claim pip being how bad my condition is, so i put in a claim for pip, around the same time and had the assesment a couple of weeks later.