Advice needed Please (Car Repair)

philip1976

facade said:

Did you say what the car (and engine) were and I missed it?

Ford Galaxy 2.3 petrol engine 

facade

philip1976 said:

facade said:

Did you say what the car (and engine) were and I missed it?

Ford Galaxy 2.3 petrol engine 

2.3 Duratec?

They don't have a reputation for metal in the oil, (only for burning it)

If it ran out of oil or was driven until the oil light came on it causes massive internal wear which would put metal particles in the oil, and wouldn't be the fault of removing & replacing the cylinder head or even simply helicoiling it in situ (as I'd have tried first)

philip1976

facade said:

philip1976 said:

facade said:

Did you say what the car (and engine) were and I missed it?

Ford Galaxy 2.3 petrol engine 

2.3 Duratec?

They don't have a reputation for metal in the oil, (only for burning it)

If it ran out of oil or was driven until the oil light came on it causes massive internal wear which would put metal particles in the oil, and wouldn't be the fault of removing & replacing the cylinder head or even simply helicoiling it in situ (as I'd have tried first)

2.3 DOHC

its never run out or been low on oil,My
mum has owned it for 12 years now.

Goudy

Something tells me that the "glitter" in the oil is from aluminium and that might have come from how they repaired the thread in the cylinder head for the spark plug.

Is it just a coincidence it's found after the thread repair??

There are different types of thread inserts and thread repairs.
Helicoils have been mentioned. This is a brand name for a wire coil based thread insert that is fitted to replace the damaged thread.
The old hole with the damaged thread is drilled out slightly oversize and tapped, then the wire coil insert is wound into the hole which now leaves a thread of the correct size.

A tab is broken off the end of the coil insert and the wire coil acts like a spring, holding it in place.

They are okay for some thread repair jobs, but usually something more substantial is used for a spark plug threads.

Often a larger hole is drilled out and tapped and a full solid threaded insert is wound and glued into the larger hole rather than just a coil of wire.

The drilling and tapping should really be done with the cylinder head off the engine so it can be cleaned of all the swarf from drilling/tapping and nothing can drop inside the cylinders, but some people are lazy and there are bigger costs involved removing the head.

If it's been done in situ, then all that drilling and tapping swarf will drop into the cylinders and some of it passed the piston rings into the oil.

The oil really needs testing.
If it's straight alloy, then it's probably come from this thread repair.
If it's Babbit (white metal used on bearing shells) they it's serious engine wear.

philip1976

Goudy said:

Something tells me that the "glitter" in the oil is from aluminium and that might have come from how they repaired the thread in the cylinder head for the spark plug.

Is it just a coincidence it's found after the thread repair??

There are different types of thread inserts and thread repairs.
Helicoils have been mentioned. This is a brand name for a wire coil based thread insert that is fitted to replace the damaged thread.
The old hole with the damaged thread is drilled out slightly oversize and tapped, then the wire coil insert is wound into the hole which now leaves a thread of the correct size.

A tab is broken off the end of the coil insert and the wire coil acts like a spring, holding it in place.

They are okay for some thread repair jobs, but usually something more substantial is used for a spark plug threads.

Often a larger hole is drilled out and tapped and a full solid threaded insert is wound and glued into the larger hole rather than just a coil of wire.

The drilling and tapping should really be done with the cylinder head off the engine so it can be cleaned of all the swarf from drilling/tapping and nothing can drop inside the cylinders, but some people are lazy and there are bigger costs involved removing the head.

If it's been done in situ, then all that drilling and tapping swarf will drop into the cylinders and some of it passed the piston rings into the oil.

The oil really needs testing.
If it's straight alloy, then it's probably come from this thread repair.
If it's Babbit (white metal used on bearing shells) they it's serious engine wear.

Thank you,

I did see about the helicoils things when this first happened,if it is straight alloy can that cause engine damage? 

Goudy

Yes.
The way engines are made means they try and remove any contaminants from the air, fuel and oil entering or circulating around the engine as it causes damage.

Engines as they get older will wear internally, the bearings and other parts that move against each other start to wear down.
Cylinder walls and piston rings are made out of hard materials that resist wear and main/crank bearings are general coated with a special metal with tends to be soft but resists friction.

Regular oil and oil filter changes will help remove anything floating around in the oil.
Different oil filters have different capabilities when it comes to screening the oil.
Economy filters tend to screen down to 40 or 50 microns or so while top quality ones down to 5 or 10 microns.

Sump plugs are sometimes magnetised to help, but not all metal inside an engine is ferrous. The white metal (babbit) on bearing shells and aluminium aren't so a magnet wouldn't trap them.

(Oil not only lubricates, it has a major effect on cooling the engine parts.
It takes heat away from all those parts which would otherwise expand massively and seize up due to that).

This type of wear also accelerates more wear. Not only does the swarf floating around the oil cause other parts to wear, the worn parts tend to run out of true and cause other parts to contact and wear away in ways they were never meant to.

There is either serious wear in the engine or something has found it's way in there.
I am only speculating but to find all that "glitter" (suddenly??) in the oil just might be indicating it's not just through normal wear, but no one at the other end of the internet could tell you that for sure.

I've torn down some hard working engines that have been used in some pretty harsh conditions and as a general rule I found that microscopic metal particles in oil are generally wear and tear. You usually notice it in the sump as a gritting sludge.

Larger particles tend to be due to damage, like something is catching or scraping in the engine or a component breaking up inside.
These types of larger particles are often in shards, flakes or threads of metal.

But given time, the first type can actually cause the second type. Normal wear can lead to parts damaging or scraping against each other producing larger particles.

philip1976

Goudy said:

Yes.
The way engines are made means they try and remove any contaminants from the air, fuel and oil entering or circulating around the engine as it causes damage.

Engines as they get older will wear internally, the bearings and other parts that move against each other start to wear down.
Cylinder walls and piston rings are made out of hard materials that resist wear and main/crank bearings are general coated with a special metal with tends to be soft but resists friction.

Regular oil and oil filter changes will help remove anything floating around in the oil.
Different oil filters have different capabilities when it comes to screening the oil.
Economy filters tend to screen down to 40 or 50 microns or so while top quality ones down to 5 or 10 microns.

Sump plugs are sometimes magnetised to help, but not all metal inside an engine is ferrous. The white metal (babbit) on bearing shells and aluminium aren't so a magnet wouldn't trap them.

(Oil not only lubricates, it has a major effect on cooling the engine parts.
It takes heat away from all those parts which would otherwise expand massively and seize up due to that).

This type of wear also accelerates more wear. Not only does the swarf floating around the oil cause other parts to wear, the worn parts tend to run out of true and cause other parts to contact and wear away in ways they were never meant to.

There is either serious wear in the engine or something has found it's way in there.
I am only speculating but to find all that "glitter" (suddenly??) in the oil just might be indicating it's not just through normal wear, but no one at the other end of the internet could tell you that for sure.

I've torn down some hard working engines that have been used in some pretty harsh conditions and as a general rule I found that microscopic metal particles in oil are generally wear and tear. You usually notice it in the sump as a gritting sludge.

Larger particles tend to be due to damage, like something is catching or scraping in the engine or a component breaking up inside.
These types of larger particles are often in shards, flakes or threads of metal.

But given time, the first type can actually cause the second type. Normal wear can lead to parts damaging or scraping against each other producing larger particles.

Thank you 👍

philip1976

I got a call from the garage on Monday saying the car is ready.Took it for a test drive and it seemed ok but since I’ve been using I’ve noticed a slight rumble when still in traffic lights,Anyone know what could be causing this please? Also when I checked oil there was smoke coming from dip stick hole is that normal? Thanks