EON Next have removed Next Drive tariffs for battery only customers.

Chrysalis

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

It shouldnt matter what the energy is used on as long as its deemed consumer use.  Yet for the suppliers for some reason it matters.

It matters for demand management.

There.are times when there is a surplus of electricity that is available at low (or negative) cost. If a supplier is able to "switch on" loads, they can make use of this surplus.

Suppliers can't come into your house and switch on your kettle, but (tthanks to smart meters and smart tariffs) they can tell your EV to charge or your storage heaters to warm up.

Hence smart tariffs for EVs and storage heaters can be offered at a lower cost than dumb tariffs.

For me this doesnt cut it really.   I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.
However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  
If anything by not offering the tarrifs they are encouraging people to not load shift.  It doesnt make any sense, your explanation makes sense as to why "any" TOU tariff is offered, but the exclusivity part does not.

QrizB

Chrysalis said:

I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.

Yes.

Chrysalis said:

However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  

Except it might be 2am today, 4pm tomorrow, midnight the day after. So it needs to be a device that doesn't really care what time of day it gets the charge, and where the supplier can control the timings; an EV, a storage heater or a home battery, for example. Not a portable heater.

Chrysalis

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.

Yes.

Chrysalis said:

However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  

Except it might be 2am today, 4pm tomorrow, midnight the day after. So it needs to be a device that doesn't really care what time of day it gets the charge, and where the supplier can control the timings; an EV, a storage heater or a home battery, for example. Not a portable heater.

Ok so basically a variable time of day.  I get you on that, although this applies to Agile as well, and they havent restricted it to EV.
Tech does exist as well, that could allow them to control any appliance, a smart plug could be linked to the supplier or DCC network.

MWT

Chrysalis said:

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.

Yes.

Chrysalis said:

However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  

Except it might be 2am today, 4pm tomorrow, midnight the day after. So it needs to be a device that doesn't really care what time of day it gets the charge, and where the supplier can control the timings; an EV, a storage heater or a home battery, for example. Not a portable heater.

Ok so basically a variable time of day.  I get you on that, although this applies to Agile as well, and they havent restricted it to EV.
Tech does exist as well, that could allow them to control any appliance, a smart plug could be linked to the supplier or DCC network.

They don't need to limit access to Agile because they vary the price every half-hour.

... and just any appliance will not serve their needs, it must be something with the ability to absorb a significant, and predictable, quantity of energy over a relatively short period of time. 

Chrysalis

MWT said:

Chrysalis said:

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.

Yes.

Chrysalis said:

However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  

Except it might be 2am today, 4pm tomorrow, midnight the day after. So it needs to be a device that doesn't really care what time of day it gets the charge, and where the supplier can control the timings; an EV, a storage heater or a home battery, for example. Not a portable heater.

Ok so basically a variable time of day.  I get you on that, although this applies to Agile as well, and they havent restricted it to EV.
Tech does exist as well, that could allow them to control any appliance, a smart plug could be linked to the supplier or DCC network.

They don't need to limit access to Agile because they vary the price every half-hour.

... and just any appliance will not serve their needs, it must be something with the ability to absorb a significant, and predictable, quantity of energy over a relatively short period of time. 

My portable heater is 2/3 of my immersion boiler, a couple of heaters is 4 KwH, how high does it need to be?

MWT

Chrysalis said:

MWT said:

Chrysalis said:

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

I believe you are saying they restrict it to things they can automatically control.

Yes.

Chrysalis said:

However you can still manipulate energy usage, causing load shifting, by enticing customers with the lower energy cost.  

So whether its an automatic shift via some smart app in a car, or someone manually using their portable heater at 2am instead of 7pm, the same has been achieved.  

Except it might be 2am today, 4pm tomorrow, midnight the day after. So it needs to be a device that doesn't really care what time of day it gets the charge, and where the supplier can control the timings; an EV, a storage heater or a home battery, for example. Not a portable heater.

Ok so basically a variable time of day.  I get you on that, although this applies to Agile as well, and they havent restricted it to EV.
Tech does exist as well, that could allow them to control any appliance, a smart plug could be linked to the supplier or DCC network.

They don't need to limit access to Agile because they vary the price every half-hour.

... and just any appliance will not serve their needs, it must be something with the ability to absorb a significant, and predictable, quantity of energy over a relatively short period of time. 

My portable heater is 2/3 of my immersion boiler, a couple of heaters is 4 KwH, how high does it need to be?

None of those offer a dependable load, they only work as long as you have somewhere to put the heat...

A half-empty EV with a 64kWh battery means they can depend on being able to deliver 30kWh+ for example.

Multiply that by a few thousand and you have a dependable, controllable energy sink. 

silvercar

QrizB said:

If you only need to draw from the mains supply during cheap rate hours, take a look at Utility Warehouse's E7 rates.

They're currently offering me:

Unit rate (day): 39.222p per kWh
Unit rate (night): 6.159p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 44.645p
Exit fee: £0.00

That daytime rate is truly horrendous. 

QrizB

silvercar said:

QrizB said:

If you only need to draw from the mains supply during cheap rate hours, take a look at Utility Warehouse's E7 rates.

They're currently offering me:

Unit rate (day): 39.222p per kWh
Unit rate (night): 6.159p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 44.645p
Exit fee: £0.00

That daytime rate is truly horrendous. 

Which is why the tariff is ideal for those who expect to use no (or only a little) daytime electricity,.but less good for those who might use more.

Chrysalis

MWT said:

None of those offer a dependable load, they only work as long as you have somewhere to put the heat...

A half-empty EV with a 64kWh battery means they can depend on being able to deliver 30kWh+ for example.

Multiply that by a few thousand and you have a dependable, controllable energy sink. 

A EV not being depleted, parked up for weeks on end, where does the charge go?

I get the point anyway, not trying be awkwardly argumentative here, just I think there is scope for expanding the use cases. Thank you.to yourself and QrizB for explaining the extra details