Courts and Tribunal service for council tax

artyboy

Jude57 said:

artyboy said:

Bigphil1474 said:

If it's not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

Not enough staff, so they push it into the courts, which of course have loads of staff. And that's leaving aside the nonsense that this particular 'debt' gets pushed down the criminal and not the civil track... 

Just to correct a couple of points.

Court staff have nothing whatsoever to do with Council Tax liability order hearings, aside from booking the Court room and directing people to the right place. They cannot and do not get involved beyond that. The Council usually has several Council Tax officers in attendance who can speak to people about queries and any other matters.

As to Council Tax being on the criminal track, that began with Community Charge which, as a form of taxation, was considered to fall into the same category as other forms of taxation, that is to say that non-payment is technically a criminal offence. It's in the Local Government Finance Act 1990, remained in the LGFA 1992 which introduced Council Tax and while it was originally introduced by a Conservative government, no subsequent government of any stripe has amended it to date. That said, there have been campaigns to end imprisonment for non-payment of Council Tax for decades but none has succeeded so far, possibly because the numbers actually imprisoned are relatively low in comparison to the number of Liability Orders issued.

So, whilst this is all interesting information, I'm not sure what 'corrections' you are suggesting here.

Ultimately criminal court resources are used here, magistrates have to hear the cases (unless you are suggesting that council tax officers can issue judgements...). And whatever the historical context, this is, as you confirm, criminal...

Jude57

artyboy said:

Jude57 said:

artyboy said:

Bigphil1474 said:

If it's not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

Not enough staff, so they push it into the courts, which of course have loads of staff. And that's leaving aside the nonsense that this particular 'debt' gets pushed down the criminal and not the civil track... 

Just to correct a couple of points.

Court staff have nothing whatsoever to do with Council Tax liability order hearings, aside from booking the Court room and directing people to the right place. They cannot and do not get involved beyond that. The Council usually has several Council Tax officers in attendance who can speak to people about queries and any other matters.

As to Council Tax being on the criminal track, that began with Community Charge which, as a form of taxation, was considered to fall into the same category as other forms of taxation, that is to say that non-payment is technically a criminal offence. It's in the Local Government Finance Act 1990, remained in the LGFA 1992 which introduced Council Tax and while it was originally introduced by a Conservative government, no subsequent government of any stripe has amended it to date. That said, there have been campaigns to end imprisonment for non-payment of Council Tax for decades but none has succeeded so far, possibly because the numbers actually imprisoned are relatively low in comparison to the number of Liability Orders issued.

So, whilst this is all interesting information, I'm not sure what 'corrections' you are suggesting here.

Ultimately criminal court resources are used here, magistrates have to hear the cases (unless you are suggesting that council tax officers can issue judgements...). And whatever the historical context, this is, as you confirm, criminal...

I'm probably wasting my time responding when it seems that you just want to vent but of course I'm not suggesting that Council Tax officers can issue judgments and I've no idea where you get that from. I'm saying that the Council has a legal duty to recover all monies owed and Council Tax is heard in Magistrates Courts, as set out in legislation. Councils must follow the prescribed recovery process and obtaining a Liability Order is part of that. It's a strict liability offence, a person is either liable or not. The small local authority I worked for issued 2,000 summonses for Liability Orders every week of the year except Christmas week and the Court was booked for the hearings for the morning session, that is from 10am to 1pm. That's how much Court time was devoted to it. If those sessions were not booked, the Court room stood empty. I can't, of course, speak for other, probably busier Courts with larger populations. Magistrates have no power at Liability Order stage to negotiate payment arrangements not can they adjust liability periods. That is the preserve of the Council Tax officers.  Liability Orders are granted in bulk and it's only in cases like the OP that Magistrates hear from the members of the public because, as stated, they have no powers beyond granting, not granting, or adjourning the decision for further investigation by the Council.

If you take issue with local authorities pursuing non-payment via Statutory methods, you'd need to take that up with your MP.

Jude57

For clarification and for the avoidance of doubt, I'd explain that having a Liability Order issued against you does NOT mean you have a criminal record. For Council Tax, you'd only get a criminal record if you're given a prison sentence for non-payment which is a long way off from the Liability Order stage. The Liability Order isn't recorded on your credit report either, unless it goes to bailiffs who may record it, the Council instigate Bankruptcy proceedings against you or the Council choose to pursue through the County Court. I've no experience of the latter because it's a risky strategy with fewer recovery options for the Council than the Statutory methods.

artyboy

Jude57 said:

artyboy said:

Jude57 said:

artyboy said:

Bigphil1474 said:

If it's not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

Not enough staff, so they push it into the courts, which of course have loads of staff. And that's leaving aside the nonsense that this particular 'debt' gets pushed down the criminal and not the civil track... 

Just to correct a couple of points.

Court staff have nothing whatsoever to do with Council Tax liability order hearings, aside from booking the Court room and directing people to the right place. They cannot and do not get involved beyond that. The Council usually has several Council Tax officers in attendance who can speak to people about queries and any other matters.

As to Council Tax being on the criminal track, that began with Community Charge which, as a form of taxation, was considered to fall into the same category as other forms of taxation, that is to say that non-payment is technically a criminal offence. It's in the Local Government Finance Act 1990, remained in the LGFA 1992 which introduced Council Tax and while it was originally introduced by a Conservative government, no subsequent government of any stripe has amended it to date. That said, there have been campaigns to end imprisonment for non-payment of Council Tax for decades but none has succeeded so far, possibly because the numbers actually imprisoned are relatively low in comparison to the number of Liability Orders issued.

So, whilst this is all interesting information, I'm not sure what 'corrections' you are suggesting here.

Ultimately criminal court resources are used here, magistrates have to hear the cases (unless you are suggesting that council tax officers can issue judgements...). And whatever the historical context, this is, as you confirm, criminal...

I'm probably wasting my time responding when it seems that you just want to vent but of course I'm not suggesting that Council Tax officers can issue judgments and I've no idea where you get that from. I'm saying that the Council has a legal duty to recover all monies owed and Council Tax is heard in Magistrates Courts, as set out in legislation. Councils must follow the prescribed recovery process and obtaining a Liability Order is part of that. It's a strict liability offence, a person is either liable or not. The small local authority I worked for issued 2,000 summonses for Liability Orders every week of the year except Christmas week and the Court was booked for the hearings for the morning session, that is from 10am to 1pm. That's how much Court time was devoted to it. If those sessions were not booked, the Court room stood empty. I can't, of course, speak for other, probably busier Courts with larger populations. Magistrates have no power at Liability Order stage to negotiate payment arrangements not can they adjust liability periods. That is the preserve of the Council Tax officers.  Liability Orders are granted in bulk and it's only in cases like the OP that Magistrates hear from the members of the public because, as stated, they have no powers beyond granting, not granting, or adjourning the decision for further investigation by the Council.

If you take issue with local authorities pursuing non-payment via Statutory methods, you'd need to take that up with your MP.

Not venting at all. Merely rebutting your assertion you were correcting anything in my earlier post, not to say that your extra context wasn't of interest...