Courts and Tribunal service for council tax

bbestmann

I own a property, which was vacant for a 4 weeks or so. The council tenant left at the end of March without notifying me or my agent. I then got two council tax bills, one for feb/March (£188) and the other for the duration of the period that the flat was empty (£133). I informed the council that I was only liable for £133, and sent them a text message that had my agent confirm the exact date that the tenant vacated the flat, which meant I was not liable for feb/march payment. I made the payment of £133 and thought it was settled, until I got another letter. After discussing the issue again with the staff at Lewisham council, they refunded the £133 which I paid and cancelled both bills and closed the case. Then I got another letter  to pay for both bills again. After speaking with them, they confirmed that they would not send me any more letters until they had investigated the issue on their end. Then they sent me a summons for non-payment of council tax and a threat of bailiff visit. Again, I spoke to them and found that they had given me two council tax numbers and it was all messy on their end. I am prepared to take this to court, as it was not my fault. Do you have any advise please? my summons is on 11th November 

mybestattempt

bbestmann said:

I own a property, which was vacant for a 4 weeks or so. The council tenant left at the end of March without notifying me or my agent. I then got two council tax bills, one for feb/March (£188) and the other for the duration of the period that the flat was empty (£133). I informed the council that I was only liable for £133, and sent them a text message that had my agent confirm the exact date that the tenant vacated the flat, which meant I was not liable for feb/march payment. I made the payment of £133 and thought it was settled, until I got another letter. After discussing the issue again with the staff at Lewisham council, they refunded the £133 which I paid and cancelled both bills and closed the case. Then I got another letter  to pay for both bills again. After speaking with them, they confirmed that they would not send me any more letters until they had investigated the issue on their end. Then they sent me a summons for non-payment of council tax and a threat of bailiff visit. Again, I spoke to them and found that they had given me two council tax numbers and it was all messy on their end. I am prepared to take this to court, as it was not my fault. Do you have any advise please? my summons is on 11th November 

The summons means the council will be asking the magistrates court to issue a liability order for unpaid council tax.

If the issue isn't sorted out before 11 November go along to the magistrates court and you will be allowed to explain to the magistrates why they should not make a liability order:

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-arrears

theartfullodger

Pay the full amount they want "under protest" (in writing ) to avoid being liable for more debt.  THEN dispute the amount.  (This is what I do).

Council tax debt (? Which country e.g. NI, Wales...?) is about the only debt you can end up in prison.  

Understand tenant left (not a council tenant, they were/are your tenant) but doesn't end their liability for rent. Sue, small claims.

What training/education have you done on being a landlord?  (When I started, 2000, had no training.  Stupid, expensive, complicated, long drawn out mistake,  oh the hubris!)

Shelldean

theartfullodger said:

Pay the full amount they want "under protest" (in writing ) to avoid being liable for more debt.  THEN dispute the amount.  (This is what I do).

Council tax debt (? Which country e.g. NI, Wales...?) is about the only debt you can end up in prison.  

Understand tenant left (not a council tenant, they were/are your tenant) but doesn't end their liability for rent. Sue, small claims.

What training/education have you done on being a landlord?  (When I started, 2000, had no training.  Stupid, expensive, complicated, long drawn out mistake,  oh the hubris!)

Artful 
You asked which country?
They mentioned Lewisham council so a London borough. Therefore England 

Jude57

theartfullodger said:

Pay the full amount they want "under protest" (in writing ) to avoid being liable for more debt.  THEN dispute the amount.  (This is what I do).

Council tax debt (? Which country e.g. NI, Wales...?) is about the only debt you can end up in prison.  

Understand tenant left (not a council tenant, they were/are your tenant) but doesn't end their liability for rent. Sue, small claims.

What training/education have you done on being a landlord?  (When I started, 2000, had no training.  Stupid, expensive, complicated, long drawn out mistake,  oh the hubris!)

Northern Ireland does not now have, nor has it ever had, Council Tax. They retain a version of the General Rates system.

bbestmann

So just to clarify, you would advise that I pay the whole amount then take them to small claims?
If so, is there a template for the email to send them? and how to proceed please?
By the way, they were not a private tenant, by that mean that the were in receipt of housing benefit but the agent was dealing with it. Unfortunately, I parted ways with the agent and they no longer have any time for me

mybestattempt

bbestmann said:

So just to clarify, you would advise that I pay the whole amount then take them to small claims?
If so, is there a template for the email to send them? and how to proceed please?
By the way, they were not a private tenant, by that mean that the were in receipt of housing benefit but the agent was dealing with it. Unfortunately, I parted ways with the agent and they no longer have any time for me

If you are "prepared to take this to court" then you can simply attend the magistrates court on 11 November and tell the magistrates why you are not liable for the council tax charge.

I'm not sure paying it then seeking recovery in the small claims court is the correct judicial route for challenging council tax liability. Even if it is it seems pointless when the opportunity to do so is available in a few weeks time.

I think @Jude57 may have a better understanding of council tax matters?

Bigphil1474

If its not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

artyboy

Bigphil1474 said:

If it's not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

Not enough staff, so they push it into the courts, which of course have loads of staff. And that's leaving aside the nonsense that this particular 'debt' gets pushed down the criminal and not the civil track... 

Jude57

mybestattempt said:

bbestmann said:

So just to clarify, you would advise that I pay the whole amount then take them to small claims?
If so, is there a template for the email to send them? and how to proceed please?
By the way, they were not a private tenant, by that mean that the were in receipt of housing benefit but the agent was dealing with it. Unfortunately, I parted ways with the agent and they no longer have any time for me

If you are "prepared to take this to court" then you can simply attend the magistrates court on 11 November and tell the magistrates why you are not liable for the council tax charge.

I'm not sure paying it then seeking recovery in the small claims court is the correct judicial route for challenging council tax liability. Even if it is it seems pointless when the opportunity to do so is available in a few weeks time.

I think @Jude57 may have a better understanding of council tax matters?

Small claims has no jurisdiction over Council Tax. However, the OP's situation should be simple enough to resolve if, as they say, they have evidence that the tenant was liable for a period for which OP has now been billed and summonsed. I'd try to resolve it before 11th November if possible but failing that, certainly attend the hearing where there will be (should be!) Council Tax officers available to speak to in person.

If OP can't speak to the Council Tax team before 11th November I'd recommend that they contact the Councillor for the area where the rental property is and ask them to intervene. The Councillor has the advantage of being able to speak to the senior Council Tax officer in person and can hopefully get them to review the case. It's my belief that, somewhere along the process an error has been made and not picked up on subsequently, compounding the error. And for the OP's information, when a new liable person/period is created for a property, a unique new Council Tax account number is automatically generated so that, say if I'm liable for a period and OP is liable for the following period, we each make payments using our specific reference number, ensuring I'm not paying his bill and he's not paying mine.

OP should create a detailed timeline of the events, including when the tenant vacated, dates when OP has previously contacted the Council including the names of the people he/she spoke to if known (if names aren't known, dates and times of calls would be helpful because all calls are recorded and a manager would be able to find the calls and establish what was discussed) the date when they paid the initial bill and when that was refunded and any other evidence they may have. The Council Tax officer should at that point withdraw the application for a Liability Order but if they refuse to do that, the OP has the right to appear before the Magistrates to argue that he/she has taken all reasonable steps to establish what is due from him/her and has already paid the initial amount billed which was refunded. In no way I'd the OP trying to avoid paying but, understandably, they don't want to pay more than they are actually liable for. I'd expect the Magistrates to adjourn the OP's case to allow the Council to investigate and re-bill if necessary.

I hope this helps OP but do come back with any further questions.

Jude57

artyboy said:

Bigphil1474 said:

If it's not sorted before the 11th, go to court and explain what's happened. My mate had similar where his tenant moved out and the council sent my mate a bill for nearly £1k. He sent them a copy of the tenancy agreement, and emails relating to them moving in and out, and he got a revised bill of about £60. Councils = too much work, not enough staff. These things happen.

Not enough staff, so they push it into the courts, which of course have loads of staff. And that's leaving aside the nonsense that this particular 'debt' gets pushed down the criminal and not the civil track... 

Just to correct a couple of points.

Court staff have nothing whatsoever to do with Council Tax liability order hearings, aside from booking the Court room and directing people to the right place. They cannot and do not get involved beyond that. The Council usually has several Council Tax officers in attendance who can speak to people about queries and any other matters.

As to Council Tax being on the criminal track, that began with Community Charge which, as a form of taxation, was considered to fall into the same category as other forms of taxation, that is to say that non-payment is technically a criminal offence. It's in the Local Government Finance Act 1990, remained in the LGFA 1992 which introduced Council Tax and while it was originally introduced by a Conservative government, no subsequent government of any stripe has amended it to date. That said, there have been campaigns to end imprisonment for non-payment of Council Tax for decades but none has succeeded so far, possibly because the numbers actually imprisoned are relatively low in comparison to the number of Liability Orders issued.