Buying bungalow with 50 year old loft conversion…please help!

JoBanana1

WIAWSNB said:

Hey Jo.

This is all a bit strange. As folk have said, that stair issue doesn't make much sense. I can only guess it's because anyone coming down the stairs in order to escape the house would have to do a weird dogleg in the hallway. Or, firefolk coming in would have to ditto to get up the stairs, or dittoditto as they remove anyone. As Silvercar says, you could seemingly sort this by reversing the way the door is hinged, if that is the issue. Could you ask your surveyor to clarify?

And is there any other way to exit from upstairs? I'd be more concerned about being trapped up there if there's a fire downstairs, which is surely far more likely?

As others have said, I cannot understand the 'insurance' issue. Ours is a converted bungalow with a bedroom upstairs, and this was never an issue - I just list the correct number of bedrooms. 

Hello
there is a window upstairs which will be replaced and big enough to get out of. Can I list it as a bedroom even if it isn’t up to current building regulations? Surely I can because every other house must be the same?! My old marital home definitely wouldn’t be! 

Albermarle

JoBanana1 said:

Albermarle said:

A family member has recently bought a similar property, where the loft had been done 35/40 years ago.
There was planning permission and associated drawings, but no building regulations paperwork.
However by enquiring on here and the solicitors, it was clear that building regs was not mandatory at that time and there were regional variations as well. So no problem with the purchase and only problem with insurance was that >50% of the roof was flat.
They had a level 3 survey and the surveyor said ( with the usual caveats) that the structure seemed OK with no obvious movement, but that levels of insulation and fire protection were obviously less than a newer structure would have.
Red for electric and gas of course.
Have since been checked and both working OK and safely despite being old .

Thankyou for this…can I ask if they had the insulation and fire protection for the loft sorted when they moved in? I think I’m getting confused that I won’t get insurance if it isn’t up to today’s building regulations..but I don’t think I’m right am I according to what everyone is saying? Sorry to sound thick. I’m on my own after a divorce and love this little bungalow so much so don’t want to walk away from it…it’s all just overwhelming at c the moment so apologies for the silliness 

Remembering now that the fire protection issue was not such a big issue, as the bedroom was on the first floor
(If you have a loft conversion in a house, this is on the second floor and fire regulations are more stringent)
Retrofitting insulation is not easy, so they just moved in and will see how it is during the winter .
If the bedroom has a window you can get out of and there is a proper staircase ,( not just a loft ladder) then I would not see it as any more dangerous for fire than a bedroom in a normal two storey house.

JoBanana1

This is really helpful thankyou so much x

WIAWSNB

Planning and Building Control requirements can not be retrospectively applied, once the compliance period has passed - which yours has in spades. 

About the only exception is if BC got wind that the building was actually unsafe - say structurally unsound. That just ain't going to happen.

I suggest you clarify with the surveyor what the issue is with the stairs. There is no circumstance that I am aware of where an insurance company will not insure the property over an issue like this. There are countless properties with breaches of P and BC, and I suspect my own wee bungalow is one of them. It matters not a jot.

Unless it's about to fall down - which yours isn't.

But you are absolutely right to be concerned about a loft conversion from the point of view of safety of the inhabitant, should there be a fire - how will they escape? There will be solutions to this - it could be as simple as a fire door to that upstairs bedroom. A 'velux' that allows escape. That sort of thing.

And obviously interconnected smoke alarms on the upstairs and downstairs hallway/landings. 

Does the Fire Brigade still offer such surveys? 

Bigphil1474

Our old terraced house was over 3 floors, there was no way of escape from the attic/loft bedroom other than the main stairs. Virtually every house on the street was the same. There is no expectation of a separate fire escape from the 3rd storey of a house. Climbing out of a window at that height is not a recognised method of escaping a fire. 

OP, is there room to move the front door outwards, like a porch? Or alternatively, bend the end so they are L shaped stairs.

BungalowBel

It does not have to comply with current building regs.  Think about it, every house over a few years old will not be compliant.

silvercar

I’d just turn the front door, so it opens against the wall. Makes sense for the stairs, for opening up the hall space and for getting furniture in and out.

Albermarle

WIAWSNB said:

Planning and Building Control requirements can not be retrospectively applied, once the compliance period has passed - which yours has in spades. 

About the only exception is if BC got wind that the building was actually unsafe - say structurally unsound. That just ain't going to happen.

I suggest you clarify with the surveyor what the issue is with the stairs. There is no circumstance that I am aware of where an insurance company will not insure the property over an issue like this. There are countless properties with breaches of P and BC, and I suspect my own wee bungalow is one of them. It matters not a jot.

Unless it's about to fall down - which yours isn't.

But you are absolutely right to be concerned about a loft conversion from the point of view of safety of the inhabitant, should there be a fire - how will they escape? There will be solutions to this - it could be as simple as a fire door to that upstairs bedroom. A 'velux' that allows escape. That sort of thing.

And obviously interconnected smoke alarms on the upstairs and downstairs hallway/landings. 

Does the Fire Brigade still offer such surveys? 

But as it is a loft conversion in a bungalow, the bedroom is only on the first floor.
So just the same as Millions of other properties and AFAIK , no special fire precautions are needed above and beyond what you would normally have in a two storey house.
So smoke detectors of course, but you would not normally have fire doors to bedrooms ?

WIAWSNB

Albermarle said:

But as it is a loft conversion in a bungalow, the bedroom is only on the first floor.
So just the same as Millions of other properties and AFAIK , no special fire precautions are needed above and beyond what you would normally have in a two storey house.
So smoke detectors of course, but you would not normally have fire doors to bedrooms ?

Thanks, I get that. But the OP has 'concerns', and it will be his daughter who uses that room.

Peace of mind if nothing else. The cost of a door and smokie is minimal. 

If I had no other means of egress from our - conforming - loft conversion, then I would be concerned. Almost certainly any fire will begin down below, and if exit via the stairs isn't possible as a result, then I would not be happy. 

Emmia

Albermarle said:

WIAWSNB said:

Planning and Building Control requirements can not be retrospectively applied, once the compliance period has passed - which yours has in spades. 

About the only exception is if BC got wind that the building was actually unsafe - say structurally unsound. That just ain't going to happen.

I suggest you clarify with the surveyor what the issue is with the stairs. There is no circumstance that I am aware of where an insurance company will not insure the property over an issue like this. There are countless properties with breaches of P and BC, and I suspect my own wee bungalow is one of them. It matters not a jot.

Unless it's about to fall down - which yours isn't.

But you are absolutely right to be concerned about a loft conversion from the point of view of safety of the inhabitant, should there be a fire - how will they escape? There will be solutions to this - it could be as simple as a fire door to that upstairs bedroom. A 'velux' that allows escape. That sort of thing.

And obviously interconnected smoke alarms on the upstairs and downstairs hallway/landings. 

Does the Fire Brigade still offer such surveys? 

But as it is a loft conversion in a bungalow, the bedroom is only on the first floor.
So just the same as Millions of other properties and AFAIK , no special fire precautions are needed above and beyond what you would normally have in a two storey house.
So smoke detectors of course, but you would not normally have fire doors to bedrooms ?

We live in a ground floor flat fitted with doors on the bedrooms, kitchen and living room that have intumescent strips and auto closers...

I've disabled the auto closers as they're blooming annoying, but would need to reactivate them if we sell.

Flats and houses have different rules, but for some of us, fire doors on bedrooms are a 'thing'.