Buying bungalow with 50 year old loft conversion…please help!

JoBanana1

Hi everyone, goodness me I’m confused and could really do with some advice! Very newly divorced and have a 13 year old daughter. I am in the process currently of buying a 3 bedroom bungalow (it was advertised as such) one of which is a 50 year old loft conversion built in 1973! It needs a full rewire and new heating system so my budget for works is no more than 25k. I am a cash buyer because of the divorce settlement (which might or might not be useful info!) 
I have had the survey back this morning and as expected the gas, electric etc came up as a red. However it also notes that the loft conversion cannot be used as a bedroom because of the access. Now there are a set of stairs leading up which have no bannister on the open side alarmingly so was going to get this sorted asap. However after speaking to the surveyor he has said that the stairs are also too close to the front door! Therefore they need completely moving!! Vendor has agreed to consider this as after speaking to a couple of insurance companies today I have been told that they won’t even quote for me as the stairs are not as they should be. 

This has set me off down a bit of a rabbit hole because I am now concerned with the safety of the actual loft conversion itself. No building regs or planning permission available due to the age. I have the original plans etc an it all looks to have been built properly back then, but as my daughter will be up there, I am concerned about fire safety, insulation etc. In all honesty it has made me almost pull out of the purchase. 

Can anyone give me any sort of advice as to whether I would get insurance for a 50 year old loft conversion that obviously won’t be up to current building regs? Or would I need to get some quotes to find out how much it would be to bring it up to today’s regs? I’m so so confused but mostly want to ensure my girl is safe and comfortable up there. It’s causing so much stress because I’m just baffled by it all! Thankyou in advance xx

JoBanana1

To add, I have been told by the surveyor that I can only sell it as a two bed if I don’t get access sorted out which has annoyed me slightly because the sellers estate agent sold it as a 3 bed! 

user1977

Why is the insurance problematic? I've never known an insurer to ask questions which would be relevant to this, or think why they would be bothered (bear in mind that buildings insurance isn't going to sort out defective construction!).

It's really up to you to decide whether you're happy with stair location / insulation / fire safety etc (or can improve any of those), nobody else is likely to take an interest.

Bigphil1474

This all sounds a bit weird. The house we sold last year had a loft conversion from 1980 (before our ownership). We had some old hand drawn documents but no planning stuff for it. Nobody batted an eye lid and we never had any problems insuring the house. How can the stairs be too close to the door?

Why do you think it needs a full rewire? Wiring as far back as the 1960s can be perfectly fine, it tends to be the consumer units that need replacing, which is quite a cheap job. You might want some extra sockets and lights but I've yet to live in a property that actually needed a full rewire. They often come back as a red 3 on a survey just because the vendors don't have an Electrical Safety report. Similar with the gas.

Do you know a good builder? Maybe get one to go round the property with you and get their opinion. Otherwise, tell the vendor you can only offer on the basis of it being a 2 bed, or look elsewhere.

JoBanana1

The stairs are literally right on top of the front door..see pics attached. I really just want to make sure it’s safe for my daughter to be staying in. Would the best option be to get a building surveyor round to have a look at it do you think?

silvercar

I don’t understand the issue with the front door. Plus you would have seen that when you viewed. If it bothers you that much, you could switch the front door opening to the other side, which actually makes more sense to have a door opening against a wall rather than dividing a small hall area.

i also can’t believe an insurer asks the distance between the stairs and the front door.

user1977

JoBanana1 said:

The stairs are literally right on top of the front door

That isn't "literally" right on top of the front door, they just end very close to where it opens. It's a bit awkward if you were using the door and stairs at the same time, but up to you how much it matters.

Did your first survey recommend a further one?

Emmia

I'd have noticed that when I viewed (and probably wouldn't have offered as it looks unsafe/less than ideal)- honestly I think those stairs must be intended for occasional use, rather than daily use i.e. if someone was using that to access their bedroom.

Whether it's fixable (and at what cost) probably depends on the layout of the rest of the property.

WIAWSNB

Hey Jo.

This is all a bit strange. As folk have said, that stair issue doesn't make much sense. I can only guess it's because anyone coming down the stairs in order to escape the house would have to do a weird dogleg in the hallway. Or, firefolk coming in would have to ditto to get up the stairs, or dittoditto as they remove anyone. As Silvercar says, you could seemingly sort this by reversing the way the door is hinged, if that is the issue. Could you ask your surveyor to clarify?

And is there any other way to exit from upstairs? I'd be more concerned about being trapped up there if there's a fire downstairs, which is surely far more likely?

As others have said, I cannot understand the 'insurance' issue. Ours is a converted bungalow with a bedroom upstairs, and this was never an issue - I just list the correct number of bedrooms. 

Albermarle

A family member has recently bought a similar property, where the loft had been done 35/40 years ago.
There was planning permission and associated drawings, but no building regulations paperwork.
However by enquiring on here and the solicitors, it was clear that building regs was not mandatory at that time and there were regional variations as well. So no problem with the purchase and only problem with insurance was that >50% of the roof was flat.
They had a level 3 survey and the surveyor said ( with the usual caveats) that the structure seemed OK with no obvious movement, but that levels of insulation and fire protection were obviously less than a newer structure would have.
Red for electric and gas of course.
Have since been checked and both working OK and safely despite being old .

JoBanana1

Albermarle said:

A family member has recently bought a similar property, where the loft had been done 35/40 years ago.
There was planning permission and associated drawings, but no building regulations paperwork.
However by enquiring on here and the solicitors, it was clear that building regs was not mandatory at that time and there were regional variations as well. So no problem with the purchase and only problem with insurance was that >50% of the roof was flat.
They had a level 3 survey and the surveyor said ( with the usual caveats) that the structure seemed OK with no obvious movement, but that levels of insulation and fire protection were obviously less than a newer structure would have.
Red for electric and gas of course.
Have since been checked and both working OK and safely despite being old .

Thankyou for this…can I ask if they had the insulation and fire protection for the loft sorted when they moved in? I think I’m getting confused that I won’t get insurance if it isn’t up to today’s building regulations..but I don’t think I’m right am I according to what everyone is saying? Sorry to sound thick. I’m on my own after a divorce and love this little bungalow so much so don’t want to walk away from it…it’s all just overwhelming at c the moment so apologies for the silliness