Bank chargeback against Alibaba

Jas8

Long story but - I purchased an engine on alibaba. It came damaged.

its advertised as easy returns meaning I can return to Alibaba warehouse in uk. However supplier said its not possible same with Alibaba.

seller said he would cover return costs and so did alibaba but no return label, no money sent, been messed around with stories saying custom fees will be high for return etc etc. 

i filed a chargeback with my bank HSBC. It was paid via debit card. The return costs are over £900+ my issue is I’ve shown hsbc all of this return attempts, etc etc but I want to know would this evidence be secure or should I just pay for returning the item myself. 

Alibaba are useless and are siding with seller who wanted to provide me 1000usd and parts to fix the engine, the engine would cost over 8k to fix. 

soolin

It is very common for Far East returns to never be received - so no refund would be made. The usual suggestion is to take whatever ‘goodwill gesture’ in hard cash that you can push them up to. 

I believe I did see a thread in the past year saying that a high street bank had allowed a chargeback even without item being returned, but I suspect that it very unusual and might well have been a mistake, but perhaps worth trying with the bank. 

Alderbank

Alibaba provides a B2B worldwide web-based platform for exchanging information between buyers and sellers of products and services. Alibaba.com does not represent either the seller or the buyer in specific transactions.
Their T&Cs say that buyers and sellers are solely responsible for setting out and performance of the terms and conditions of the transactions conducted on, through or as a result of use of the Sites or Services, including, without limitation, terms regarding payment, returns, warranties, shipping, insurance, fees, taxes, title, licenses, fines, permits, handling, transportation and storage...

This is big boys' stuff.

Who is the seller with whom you made the contract of sale of this engine, where in the world are they registered and under what country's laws was the contract made? You say they have a warehouse in the UK but you also say the seller would like to give you 1,000 US dollars.

What T&Cs did you agree with the seller in the contract? Is it recognised as a consumer contract in whatever laws the contract was agreed under?

All this legal stuff matters.

Jas8

The order was covered by Alibaba Trade Assurance, and the product listing clearly displayed the “Easy Return” logo — which means free returns to a local UK warehouse.

I have multiple screenshots and written confirmation from Alibaba’s own live chat agents confirming:

• My order qualifies for Easy Return.

• If the seller fails to provide a return label or pay for shipping, Alibaba will process a full refund manually.

The seller, a Chinese company, shipped the engine from China. When it arrived, it was defective— there was clear crankshaft and bearing damage.

After I reported this, the seller:

• Admitted there was a problem with the engine and said they would “bear all return costs.”

• Later offered $1,000 USD and spare parts instead of a proper refund.

• Refused to provide a return label or any payment for shipping, making return impossible.

Alibaba also confirmed in chat that the seller had declined the Easy Return process, and even gave them 48 hours to comply or face a full refund. The seller did not cooperate.

I have obtained verified quotes (£300–£800) from FedEx, UPS, and sea freight companies to show I was willing to return the engine, but it’s unreasonable to pay that when both Alibaba and the seller confirmed the return should be covered.

My Trade Assurance contract states:

• Clause 6.3.1(2): Seller is in breach if the product fails to match description/specifications.

• Clause 6.3.2: Seller must refund all payments (including return costs) if the goods are defective.

I filed the chargeback with HSBC under Visa Reason Code 13.3 – “Not as Described or Defective Merchandise.”

Visa’s policy allows a chargeback to succeed where the seller refuses or makes return impossible — which applies here.

The seller’s current position is that I must pay over £800 to ship the engine back to China and “trust” them to refund afterward, despite multiple confirmations that returns should be covered under Easy Return and Trade Assurance.

1️⃣ Does this still qualify as a consumer transaction under UK law since I’m a private buyer in the UK purchasing from abroad?

2️⃣ Under Visa and HSBC chargeback rules, can my claim still succeed even though the seller made the return impossible?

3️⃣ Should I highlight the Easy Return advertisement on the listing as part of the contract evidence?

4️⃣ Would paying around £300 to return it now strengthen or weaken my chargeback position, given the seller previously refused to accept it?

user1977

Jas8 said:

Does this still qualify as a consumer transaction under UK law since I’m a private buyer in the UK purchasing from abroad?

Leaving aside whether the contract is even subject to UK law, it sounds like a B2B transaction. Why were you buying the engine?

Jas8

Mine was broken, costing it cost a lot in the UK. A new one is £30,000, a used one is £10,000 with high mileage. I was told this was 23,000 miles and it costed £4,000 

MyRealNameToo

Jas8 said:

Mine was broken, costing it cost a lot in the UK. A new one is £30,000, a used one is £10,000 with high mileage. I was told this was 23,000 miles and it costed £4,000 

So a case where clearly it wasnt going to be what it said it was given it was so grossly under priced. 

Yes you can get budget items really cheap and often the quality is acceptable but buying branded stuff vastly underpriced normally means it's fake or in a much worse shape than they claim. 

You've submitted your chargeback so now just have to wait a few months to see if it gets reversed or not. 

Dont know how Alibaba deals with Chargebacks either... could be like eBay where they used to just put your account into the red and start debt collection action against you (though eBay now claw it back from the seller)

Jas8

 

MyRealNameToo said:

Jas8 said:

Mine was broken, costing it cost a lot in the UK. A new one is £30,000, a used one is £10,000 with high mileage. I was told this was 23,000 miles and it costed £4,000 

So a case where clearly it wasnt going to be what it said it was given it was so grossly under priced. 

Yes you can get budget items really cheap and often the quality is acceptable but buying branded stuff vastly underpriced normally means it's fake or in a much worse shape than they claim. 

You've submitted your chargeback so now just have to wait a few months to see if it gets reversed or not. 

Dont know how Alibaba deals with Chargebacks either... could be like eBay where they used to just put your account into the red and start debt collection action against you (though eBay now claw it back from the seller)

Completely not true. I have bought an engine before from alibaba and it was fine, I know loads of people who have also. People do not value older vehicle in far east hence why you can import a car cheaper from Japan. 

Nothing showed any indication of it was “clearly not going to be what it advertised” 

thanks 

Okell

Jas8 said:

Mine was broken, costing it cost a lot in the UK. A new one is £30,000, a used one is £10,000 with high mileage. I was told this was 23,000 miles and it costed £4,000 

What sort of engine is it?

Okell

I may be mistaken but as I understand chargebacks it won't succeed if the trader disputes it with your bank - and I suspect the trader will dispute it if you haven't returned the engine.

You might well be able to buy cheaply priced but good engines from China via Alibaba, but I'd have thought the obvious downside is that if you happen to buy a dud you might have a problem getting your money back...

born_again

If seller disputes chargeback, stating they will refund when you return the item. Then you will lose the chargeback. You only get one chance at a chargeback.
As visa state item should be returned & retailer are disputing on that basis, then you have to comply.
You can not have a refund & engine.

Maybe prudent to see if they will fund some cost to repair the engine.

Your consumer rights are where the retailer is based.