A2A quote for aircon

Martyn1981

Hi barker. The first one was the base/cheapest LG model. The second was also a LG model, but we paid a bit more for one that has a nicer looking inside unit, and also wifi.

For A/C, more control may not be needed, but for heating it's very good to be able to set schedules for timed heating, and maybe folk will appreciate the ability to control the units when away from home, to help heat/cool when on your way.

Also the wifi units allow for better monitoring. For instance, I can see that during these mild times, it switched on last night pulling about 300W for the first hour, and ~200W for the last hours (5am to 7am).

I haven't switched our 'dumb' unit on yet as temps are decent, and it's in our small conservatory, so greater heat loss (though we do have insulated blinds). The second unit schedule works great, currently switching on at 2am and off at 7am, but that time period will grow. When it gets colder, the dumb unit will be on 24/7, and I turn up the temp ~2C when I go to bed, then back down in the morning. That way it works harder during the cheap rate period. If the house is getting too warm, I can turn the 'smart' unit off, knowing that the schedule will turn it back on for the cheap rate period without my having to remember/fuss.

For both I went with Cooleasy. A decade ago, it was hard to find anyone interested in the idea, or they'd quote huge figures over the phone. I think the idea of A2A for heating, and certainly the demand for A/C in domestic properties has grown, so it may be easier to find an installer and a decent price. Cooleasy quote the prices for the units, which they can supply, and also quote a standard install price. I live not far from them, so they themselves installed my units. They do offer links to installers around the UK, who will charge the same fixed price ..... but forum friends who have tried this often haven't found installers near them. Or installers who want to install for the price.

Good news though, is that the unit and install are now VAT free.

[Edit - Just for example, cost of units (based on 3.5kW for consistency) range from low £400's to ~£2k. Cooleasy charge £600 for a standard/simple install. M.]

silverwhistle

Martyn1981 said

Sorry for all the waffle, just trying to think of issues/concerns that you (or others) may be pondering and would like to know.


Oh, just a thought, but may be worth waiting and watching for developments on the home heating support grant. A2A have already got some support, such as zero VAT on purchase and install, but the review should be complete soon, and maybe there's a small chance that A2A will start to get its share of the love v's the £7.5k support for wet ASHP installs.

Just passed by again.. thanks for the comprehensive answer, not waffle at all!

I was talking with my bestie about all this at the weekend, and she spotted a friend of hers online, so we ended up having a very brief chat. At least I now have an F-gas engineer when I need one as I trust my friend's recommendations!

I think I agree with your subsequent comment:

For A/C, more control may not be needed, but for heating it's very good to be able to set schedules for timed heating, and maybe folk will appreciate the ability to control the units when away from home, to help heat/cool when on your way.

Although our climate is changing here on the coast it was only a week or two at most when I found it worthwhile putting on some temporary (and unsightly) external shading on my S facing window. If I went away in winter though, I'd want to maintain some warmth within the fabric of the house, and I also normally open the loft hatch in those circumstances. 

It's not CH season yet although I admit to a couple of cheery fires, for morale reasons really in this miserable weather. But having this option and a generally cosy house means I can get away with a lower powered unit. 

Trawling through websites and spec sheets is hard work though. I need to check on a possible location for the external unit but the ideal one is a bit further away. Has anyone any idea of what is possible for pipework runs?

Looks like I may have to speak to that engineer sooner rather than later.. ;-)

Martyn1981

HI SW. Just thinking how I've 'travelled' through 3 stages of A2A.

The first was the original idea, discussed on a thread, about using excess PV gen to reduce space heating from GCH during those shoulder months.

Second was after we got a BEV, and cheap rate leccy rates then became viable. That allowed us to run the A2A unit(s) right through the winter nights, during the cheap rate slots, to pre-heat the house. Again reducing gas consumption. I assume this is where you potentially are now.

Lastly was the addition of domestic batts, to allow 24/7 'cheap rate' leccy for A2A. And a thought struck me .... am I right in thinking that you have a BEV with V2L? If so, then maybe you can do something along these lines (when you/BEV) are home? Not sure how to do it, but my first thought was drilling a small hole to run an extension cable (need to remove/replace the plug). But I'm sure you can imagineer a solution.

[Of course, nothing stopping anyone running the A2A through the day, on normal rate leccy. That's a great green solution, but I don't want to push th green side too much outside of the Green & Ethical Board. So consideration is then needed for the MSE side of things, as leccy is so expensive at the moment.]

Regardless, if you can jump straight to stage 2 with one A2A, then that should help a fair bit with your heating, while you judge success, problems etc, and decide what to do next.

barker77

Martyn1981 said:

Hi barker. The first one was the base/cheapest LG model. The second was also a LG model, but we paid a bit more for one that has a nicer looking inside unit, and also wifi.

For A/C, more control may not be needed, but for heating it's very good to be able to set schedules for timed heating, and maybe folk will appreciate the ability to control the units when away from home, to help heat/cool when on your way.

Also the wifi units allow for better monitoring. For instance, I can see that during these mild times, it switched on last night pulling about 300W for the first hour, and ~200W for the last hours (5am to 7am).

I haven't switched our 'dumb' unit on yet as temps are decent, and it's in our small conservatory, so greater heat loss (though we do have insulated blinds). The second unit schedule works great, currently switching on at 2am and off at 7am, but that time period will grow. When it gets colder, the dumb unit will be on 24/7, and I turn up the temp ~2C when I go to bed, then back down in the morning. That way it works harder during the cheap rate period. If the house is getting too warm, I can turn the 'smart' unit off, knowing that the schedule will turn it back on for the cheap rate period without my having to remember/fuss.

For both I went with Cooleasy. A decade ago, it was hard to find anyone interested in the idea, or they'd quote huge figures over the phone. I think the idea of A2A for heating, and certainly the demand for A/C in domestic properties has grown, so it may be easier to find an installer and a decent price. Cooleasy quote the prices for the units, which they can supply, and also quote a standard install price. I live not far from them, so they themselves installed my units. They do offer links to installers around the UK, who will charge the same fixed price ..... but forum friends who have tried this often haven't found installers near them. Or installers who want to install for the price.

Good news though, is that the unit and install are now VAT free.

[Edit - Just for example, cost of units (based on 3.5kW for consistency) range from low £400's to ~£2k. Cooleasy charge £600 for a standard/simple install. M.]

All the ones I can see seemingly show 800w as minimum. do you have a link at all? 

silverwhistle

  Thanks again. I know all about expensive electricity rates as I'm on Agile at the momen! I have got practiced at avoiding the expensive periods: kettle, induction hob, air fryer and microwave all succesfully used on V2L, although I tend to either prep early and eat late. Charging the car will be on Wednesday but mainly Saturday this week to keep it under 2p a unit if not negative!;-)

But last year I didn't really use the GCH until late November and by March only used 75kWh in the month so even better than the shoulder months, perhaps? If you consider a gas price of (say) 6p and a COP of 4 it gives you a fair bit of leeway. If necessary I could go back to Intelligent Octopus Go.

With surplus solar I even used a bit of direct acting space heating when the weather was clear and cold. With Agile at the moment I am largely heating water via a solar PV diverter and cheap periods on Agile, so on course to use less than the 67kWh of gas I used last year in October. 

So although it's definitely a case of suck it and see, an experimental method without a control, my feeling is I'd avoid a stage and go straight for two outlets, with none upstairs, which ISTR is your set up? Then it's a question of how effective it is and whether I can get rid of gas and gain £118 a year.

It's like a dynamic simultaneous equation with random and unpredictable variables. It's only the bottom line can be the judge ultimately, it seems to me, as the modelling is beyond my maths capabilities. I can only do arithmetic!

zxzxzx

silverwhistle said:

  If necessary I could go back to Intelligent Octopus Go.

Octopus Cosy would also be an option.

Martyn1981

barker77 said:

Martyn1981 said:

Hi barker. The first one was the base/cheapest LG model. The second was also a LG model, but we paid a bit more for one that has a nicer looking inside unit, and also wifi.

For A/C, more control may not be needed, but for heating it's very good to be able to set schedules for timed heating, and maybe folk will appreciate the ability to control the units when away from home, to help heat/cool when on your way.

Also the wifi units allow for better monitoring. For instance, I can see that during these mild times, it switched on last night pulling about 300W for the first hour, and ~200W for the last hours (5am to 7am).

I haven't switched our 'dumb' unit on yet as temps are decent, and it's in our small conservatory, so greater heat loss (though we do have insulated blinds). The second unit schedule works great, currently switching on at 2am and off at 7am, but that time period will grow. When it gets colder, the dumb unit will be on 24/7, and I turn up the temp ~2C when I go to bed, then back down in the morning. That way it works harder during the cheap rate period. If the house is getting too warm, I can turn the 'smart' unit off, knowing that the schedule will turn it back on for the cheap rate period without my having to remember/fuss.

For both I went with Cooleasy. A decade ago, it was hard to find anyone interested in the idea, or they'd quote huge figures over the phone. I think the idea of A2A for heating, and certainly the demand for A/C in domestic properties has grown, so it may be easier to find an installer and a decent price. Cooleasy quote the prices for the units, which they can supply, and also quote a standard install price. I live not far from them, so they themselves installed my units. They do offer links to installers around the UK, who will charge the same fixed price ..... but forum friends who have tried this often haven't found installers near them. Or installers who want to install for the price.

Good news though, is that the unit and install are now VAT free.

[Edit - Just for example, cost of units (based on 3.5kW for consistency) range from low £400's to ~£2k. Cooleasy charge £600 for a standard/simple install. M.]

All the ones I can see seemingly show 800w as minimum. do you have a link at all? 

I'm totally baffled by that, unless you are looking at min output (800W(t)), rather than input? For instance a 5kW model may show 800W-5kW for heating output range in the specs, with a max power input (for the upper figures) of ~1kW. Only a 'made up' example, maybe post a link to the spec sheet of a model you are considering.

Martyn1981

silverwhistle said:

  Thanks again. I know all about expensive electricity rates as I'm on Agile at the momen! I have got practiced at avoiding the expensive periods: kettle, induction hob, air fryer and microwave all succesfully used on V2L, although I tend to either prep early and eat late. Charging the car will be on Wednesday but mainly Saturday this week to keep it under 2p a unit if not negative!;-)

But last year I didn't really use the GCH until late November and by March only used 75kWh in the month so even better than the shoulder months, perhaps? If you consider a gas price of (say) 6p and a COP of 4 it gives you a fair bit of leeway. If necessary I could go back to Intelligent Octopus Go.

With surplus solar I even used a bit of direct acting space heating when the weather was clear and cold. With Agile at the moment I am largely heating water via a solar PV diverter and cheap periods on Agile, so on course to use less than the 67kWh of gas I used last year in October. 

So although it's definitely a case of suck it and see, an experimental method without a control, my feeling is I'd avoid a stage and go straight for two outlets, with none upstairs, which ISTR is your set up? Then it's a question of how effective it is and whether I can get rid of gas and gain £118 a year.

It's like a dynamic simultaneous equation with random and unpredictable variables. It's only the bottom line can be the judge ultimately, it seems to me, as the modelling is beyond my maths capabilities. I can only do arithmetic!

Yep, that's us. Works well here, and 'the classic' 3 bed 1930's semi is certainly not considered to be an efficient home to heat. Also we have a loft conversion, so some heat will escape up there. We have heavy thermal curtains on the loft stairs, and I added a foldable insulation 'door' last year, simply made from the already folded insulation sheets that go under laminate flooring.

Main bedroom doesn't seem to need any top up heat, but it is directly above the room with an A2A unit. Spare bedroom was a bit cold last winter, but we had the door shut a lot, as we we were fostering an injured cat. Even so, a 800W oil rad, warmed the room fine in an hour or so. Recently, we stripped the combi out of that room, and added a large 210lt HW tank. I went oversized so that I could dial the temp up for the winter and let it leak cheap rate heat into the room (like a storage heater). All metal fittings and pipes are exposed, I'll insulate them in the Spring, and dial the temp down, to reduce heat loss. Also, the 8kWh batts I recently bought are in there, they charge about 6kWh per day, and discharge about 5kWh after round trip losses, so that should be adding about 1kWh(t) to the room too. [Silly little experiments, but keep me entertained, and hopefully help.]

Bathroom temp depends on door being open or not, so we added a 500W towel rad (with built in 1kW blower), but like a kettle, total energy consumption is small despite higher power rating. But smallest room, furthest from stairs gets a bit chilly, but it has a large bay area (about 3m x 1.5m of glass, which is the real culprit. Again, door open helps, and a 400W* oil rad solves the problem on coldest days, when in use.

Crucially, the trick is to do the opposite of individual room radiator heating. You need to have doors open, to allow heat to escape from the rooms with the A2A, and reach the rooms without.

I suspect, you will have enough heat travelling up, to avoid such issues in your home. Also I found that dialing up the A2A units ~1C seemed to solve the upstairs top up ...... but I did that after the coldest spell, late Jan early Feb I think, so I can't be certain till I play again this winter. Bit annoyed I didn't think of that earlier, last winter.

*It's actually a 15yr old 400W/700W/1100W cheapy model with not enough fins. So it quickly switches itself off, when hot. So even in 400W mode, after about 15mins it starts to cycle on/off about every 5min, so actual sustained draw is about 200W.

barker77

Martyn1981 said:

barker77 said:

Martyn1981 said:

Hi barker. The first one was the base/cheapest LG model. The second was also a LG model, but we paid a bit more for one that has a nicer looking inside unit, and also wifi.

For A/C, more control may not be needed, but for heating it's very good to be able to set schedules for timed heating, and maybe folk will appreciate the ability to control the units when away from home, to help heat/cool when on your way.

Also the wifi units allow for better monitoring. For instance, I can see that during these mild times, it switched on last night pulling about 300W for the first hour, and ~200W for the last hours (5am to 7am).

I haven't switched our 'dumb' unit on yet as temps are decent, and it's in our small conservatory, so greater heat loss (though we do have insulated blinds). The second unit schedule works great, currently switching on at 2am and off at 7am, but that time period will grow. When it gets colder, the dumb unit will be on 24/7, and I turn up the temp ~2C when I go to bed, then back down in the morning. That way it works harder during the cheap rate period. If the house is getting too warm, I can turn the 'smart' unit off, knowing that the schedule will turn it back on for the cheap rate period without my having to remember/fuss.

For both I went with Cooleasy. A decade ago, it was hard to find anyone interested in the idea, or they'd quote huge figures over the phone. I think the idea of A2A for heating, and certainly the demand for A/C in domestic properties has grown, so it may be easier to find an installer and a decent price. Cooleasy quote the prices for the units, which they can supply, and also quote a standard install price. I live not far from them, so they themselves installed my units. They do offer links to installers around the UK, who will charge the same fixed price ..... but forum friends who have tried this often haven't found installers near them. Or installers who want to install for the price.

Good news though, is that the unit and install are now VAT free.

[Edit - Just for example, cost of units (based on 3.5kW for consistency) range from low £400's to ~£2k. Cooleasy charge £600 for a standard/simple install. M.]

All the ones I can see seemingly show 800w as minimum. do you have a link at all? 

I'm totally baffled by that, unless you are looking at min output (800W(t)), rather than input? For instance a 5kW model may show 800W-5kW for heating output range in the specs, with a max power input (for the upper figures) of ~1kW. Only a 'made up' example, maybe post a link to the spec sheet of a model you are considering.

Ah I was looking at output! Mine still has a minimum of 600w input so cant modulate as low which is a shame 

wrf12345

Does fitting a couple of A2A units alter the EPC even when keeping the gas CH? Also I read somewhere that the new rules for permitted development include MCS cert only installs, for A2W, I assume that does not apply to A2A? Last thing anyone needs is someone from the council poking their noses into their affairs.