Mail order item stolen from non-safe place.

Grandad99

I know that if an item is stolen from a specified place the courier is not held responsible.

Amazon made a delivery whilst we were out and e-mailed a photo showing it in an easily seen part of a side entry, not behind the wheelie bins that are our specified safe place.

Are Amazon responsible for providing a replacement?

Grandad99

Yes they are.

Frustrated by the Live Chat telling me to wait 48 hours I eventually found the phone link to a real person who immediately put through a full refund. 

Merlin139

Grandad99 said:

I know that if an item is stolen from a specified place the courier is not held responsible.

Amazon made a delivery whilst we were out and e-mailed a photo showing it in an easily seen part of a side entry, not behind the wheelie bins that are our specified safe place.

Are Amazon responsible for providing a replacement?

I had 3 parcels stolen after delivery from Amazon/Royal Mail. I have specified that I have no safe place. If no one is in then deliver on another day. 

On all occasions the items have been replaced/refunded. Amazon make you wait 24 hrs in case its been taken in by a neighbour, even when they show its been left on the doorstep.

Last week I had a courier leave 3 items round the back of my house without even bothering to knock on the door. What made it worse was that it was tipping it down. I noticed as I saw him going passed the window. He showed me a device that said leave in safe place. After speaking to the supplier they said he had to obtain signature. Items were worth around £500. No idea how the courier was going to get my signature? 

GrubbyGirl_2

Merlin139 said:

No idea how the courier was going to get my signature? 

If he can't even be bothered to knock on the door he'll have no qualms about forging your signature

ButterCheese

I have complained about this to no avail (luckily none were stolen).  We have a front porch which is always open, we can lock the inside door.  But Amazon frequently leave a parcel leaning on the front step, in full view of passers by.  And take a photo of it.  Every time this happens I leave a review (which they prompt me to do) and say it wasn't left in our designated safe place.  I don't even know why the drivers do this.  It would take literally 5 seconds longer to open the door and leave it in the porch, but they'd rather plonk it on the floor and risk it being stolen to save 5 seconds.  

MyRealNameToo

ButterCheese said:

I don't even know why the drivers do this.  It would take literally 5 seconds longer to open the door and leave it in the porch, but they'd rather plonk it on the floor and risk it being stolen to save 5 seconds.  

An amazon drive does 200 deliveries in a day, more in big cities. Saving 5 seconds per delivery is knocking more than 15 minutes off their shift. Feels fairly obvious why they do it as per your own post. 

TELLIT01

A few years ago my wife contacted a supplier when an item didn't arrive.  Thankfully she did receive a refund.  Several days later she found the item, a dress, at the side of our house, behind high side gates.  This was the middle of winter and she had no reason to go out there sooner.  Needless to say the dress was ruined.  We did have a safe place - our porch, which is always left unlocked when we are out during the day.

Okell

The law makes any items bought through a distance contract the responsibility of the trader until the items in question are delivered into the physical possession of either the consumer or an individual specifically identified by the consumer for that purpose.

If the courier does not do that, it's a problem between them and the trader, and not the consumer's problem.

Nowhere does the law make any mention of "safe places".

And before anybody bangs on about allowing delivery to "safe spaces" reduces the cost of delivery to everybody - it doesn't.  It only reduces the average cost of delivery and only those people who have a successful delivery benefit from that reduced average cost.  Those who have goods "disappeared" from wherever the courier has dumped them are disproportionately penalised and are unfairly subsidising the reduced costs of everybody else.

A basic economic principle is that costs should be borne where they fall - otherwise you never know the true cost of anything.

MyRealNameToo

Okell said:

The law makes any items bought through a distance contract the responsibility of the trader until the items in question are delivered into the physical possession of either the consumer or an individual specifically identified by the consumer for that purpose.

If the courier does not do that, it's a problem between them and the trader, and not the consumer's problem.

Nowhere does the law make any mention of "safe places".

And before anybody bangs on about allowing delivery to "safe spaces" reduces the cost of delivery to everybody - it doesn't.  It only reduces the average cost of delivery and only those people who have a successful delivery benefit from that reduced average cost.  Those who have goods "disappeared" from wherever the courier has dumped them are disproportionately penalised and are unfairly subsidising the reduced costs of everybody else.

A basic economic principle is that costs should be borne where they fall - otherwise you never know the true cost of anything.

Has caselaw moved on? I know several years ago there was extensive discussion on the legal standing if the customer had explicitly instructed the vendor/courier to leave the item say in a porch and the legal liability were that to happen but something occurs post delivery. 

The general view at the time was it was likely the courts would take the customer's instruction and see them as the author of their own misfortune if they said to leave the parcel in the bin and then customer complains the bin had been emptied between delivery and their opportunity to bring it in. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MyRealNameToo said

Has caselaw moved on? I know several years ago there was extensive discussion on the legal standing if the customer had explicitly instructed the vendor/courier to leave the item say in a porch and the legal liability were that to happen but something occurs post delivery. 

The general view at the time was it was likely the courts would take the customer's instruction and see them as the author of their own misfortune if they said to leave the parcel in the bin and then customer complains the bin had been emptied between delivery and their opportunity to bring it in. 

I doubt any of these issues get as far as the higher courts. 

Not sure what discussions you are referring to? On here?

MyRealNameToo

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MyRealNameToo said

Has caselaw moved on? I know several years ago there was extensive discussion on the legal standing if the customer had explicitly instructed the vendor/courier to leave the item say in a porch and the legal liability were that to happen but something occurs post delivery. 

The general view at the time was it was likely the courts would take the customer's instruction and see them as the author of their own misfortune if they said to leave the parcel in the bin and then customer complains the bin had been emptied between delivery and their opportunity to bring it in. 

I doubt any of these issues get as far as the higher courts. 

Not sure what discussions you are referring to? On here?

It started from an article, can't remember now if it was in the news or on MSE but then inevitably resulted in a long discussion on the forum just like lots of other similar topics.