Abortive legal fees - challenge or not?

ryanm8655

Hi all,

I recently pulled out of a purchase and have just had my bill through...

It is made up of legal fees of £480 plus £216.12 for searches.

In short, the vendors declared a border dispute early on (in the initial sales pack), having agreed to change the border on land registry, months later they claimed there was no dispute and my lender wouldn't lend. As a result I pulled out.

I understand the conveyancer will still charge for the time spent on the case but I have a couple of issues with the fee:

1) They didn't communicate. I had to chase them all the time and it was like I didn't exist. I sent a list of enquiries for example and had to chase about 4 times with no response (even though when they called about the border issue they said they'd had responses that they'd send over...they sent them over a month later). There was just no communication...
2) They didn't even tell me they had started searches...or the result of them. I'm not sure why you'd spend money on searches with a border issue that is going to make it difficult to get a mortgage approved.
3) They were useless legally too, when they raised the border dispute they didn't give me an outline of my options or what the risks were...just an "it's up to you", which meant I had to go away and do my own research (what exactly was I paying them for?).

To be frank, I'm not really sure what they actually did...

I'd already paid them £600 so it's only another £96.12 but given how poor they were... (the solicitors for my new purchase are both slightly cheaper and far more organised/communicative).

Do I have any cause to challenge the fee?

I'm a FTB so not been through the conveyancing process before...and as I say, I appreciate they will have incurred fees but my experience has left a bit of a sour taste.

Thanks!

GDB2222

What does your contract say? 

ryanm8655

GDB2222 said:

What does your contract say? 

Nothing in particular, a breakdown of the fees, nothing about if the sale doesn't complete or when searches will be started.

It does say they'd keep me informed of any delays...completion typically takes 4-20 weeks (it was at about 5 months).

MyRealNameToo

Did you discuss with them holding off other aspects whilst the issue of the border was dealt with?

Myci85

I think you may struggle to challenge the fees, as frustrating as it is. 

1) Sadly, this seems to be the norm for many solicitors, they get on and do the work with little need to communicate the outcomes to you until they've got lots back. I guess communicating often with all their clients would just slow them down, but I'm sure some could improve in this area!
2) Unless you explicitly said not to do any chargeable work until this issue was resolved, they would start doing other work. Otherwise, if it took a few months to sort that issue and they didn't start the searches or other stuff until after that, then people would start getting annoyed that it was taking far longer than it should, and asking why they put off doing the other stuff alongside. 
3) Whilst it sounds like they could have given more guidance, I guess in reality their job is to alert you to any potential legal issues, which it sounds like they did, so that you can make up your own mind. They aren't there to tell you what to do as at the end of the day, it isn't their decision to make. 

Sorry, I know you'll be wanting to be told you do have grounds to challenge and not pay.

Mark_d

I don't think you have ground to dispute this £96.12.

The solicitors are there to bring issues to your attention and take your direction but they are not there to advise what you, what in their opinion, you should do.  

user1977

Mark_d said:

The solicitors are there to bring issues to your attention and take your direction but they are not there to advise what you, what in their opinion, you should do.  

Well, who is, then? It's part of providing legal advice to at least "give me an outline of my options or what the risks were". It's a bit useless just to say "this isn't perfect" and then shrug their shoulders when you ask them what you should do.

Mark_d

user1977 said:

Mark_d said:

The solicitors are there to bring issues to your attention and take your direction but they are not there to advise what you, what in their opinion, you should do.  

Well, who is, then? It's part of providing legal advice to at least "give me an outline of my options or what the risks were". It's a bit useless just to say "this isn't perfect" and then shrug their shoulders when you ask them what you should do.

Maybe you can, or others on this forum?  The solicitors should outline your options but unlike a financial advisor, it's not for the solicitor to follow a defined process to work out what is best for you.

It's not uncommon, when buying a property, to come across a situation which isn't perfect.  Some workarounds might be better than others but that is a matter of opinion.

user1977

Mark_d said:

user1977 said:

Mark_d said:

The solicitors are there to bring issues to your attention and take your direction but they are not there to advise what you, what in their opinion, you should do.  

Well, who is, then? It's part of providing legal advice to at least "give me an outline of my options or what the risks were". It's a bit useless just to say "this isn't perfect" and then shrug their shoulders when you ask them what you should do.

Maybe you can, or others on this forum?

Yes I can, but I also do so as part of my day job, and my clients wouldn't be all that impressed if I failed to give them any sort of guidance. The decision is ultimately for the client but it's perfectly normal for their solicitor to guide them towards the most pragmatic solution, or simply to tell them "this is normal, there are very obscure risks x, y and z but in reality everybody accepts those", etc.

ryanm8655

user1977 said:

Mark_d said:

user1977 said:

Mark_d said:

The solicitors are there to bring issues to your attention and take your direction but they are not there to advise what you, what in their opinion, you should do.  

Well, who is, then? It's part of providing legal advice to at least "give me an outline of my options or what the risks were". It's a bit useless just to say "this isn't perfect" and then shrug their shoulders when you ask them what you should do.

Maybe you can, or others on this forum?

Yes I can, but I also do so as part of my day job, and my clients wouldn't be all that impressed if I failed to give them any sort of guidance. The decision is ultimately for the client but it's perfectly normal for their solicitor to guide them towards the most pragmatic solution, or simply to tell them "this is normal, there are very obscure risks x, y and z but in reality everybody accepts those", etc.

I'm not a lawyer but know plenty (almost became one myself before deciding to go down a different path) and this was my expectation too. Instead I was met with awkward silence when I asked what my options were.

I work in an analytical role where I advise clients of  their options and give pro's and cons of each but ultimately they have to make the decision. My role would be pretty redundant if I was just there to flag a problem and leave them to it, rightly they'd question what on earth they're paying me for...

ryanm8655

Myci85 said:

I think you may struggle to challenge the fees, as frustrating as it is. 

1) Sadly, this seems to be the norm for many solicitors, they get on and do the work with little need to communicate the outcomes to you until they've got lots back. I guess communicating often with all their clients would just slow them down, but I'm sure some could improve in this area!
2) Unless you explicitly said not to do any chargeable work until this issue was resolved, they would start doing other work. Otherwise, if it took a few months to sort that issue and they didn't start the searches or other stuff until after that, then people would start getting annoyed that it was taking far longer than it should, and asking why they put off doing the other stuff alongside. 
3) Whilst it sounds like they could have given more guidance, I guess in reality their job is to alert you to any potential legal issues, which it sounds like they did, so that you can make up your own mind. They aren't there to tell you what to do as at the end of the day, it isn't their decision to make. 

Sorry, I know you'll be wanting to be told you do have grounds to challenge and not pay.

That's helpful thanks.

The frustration with 3 is that they didn't even give me options, so I'm not really sure what I was paying them for in that respect. It was only when the mortgage company said they wouldn't lend that it even became an issue. As a layperson I assumed that ,as it was minor, it'd be fine, having been told nothing to the contrary.

I didn't say don't do chargeable work so that's fair enough I guess, some communication would have been nice though.

I guess my current solicitors are a rare gem in that they are consulting me when doing things, they're cheaper too.