Parcel monkey disregard for consumer rights. Need legal advice.

Alderbank

born_again said:

Gehngus said:

People just love to think they're catching you out with little underlying coments don't they?

I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to be honest?

No one is trying to catch you out. Just trying to get to the facts, so that the correct advice is given.👍
There is a long running thread in Motoring section on the same subject of a car being sold under a business account. Yet the business is not a car dealer.

So in reality it makes it hard to reach a consensus on if it is a consumer or business deal. Everyone will have their own opinion. 🤷‍♀️

I guess the main thing is do you have a business acc with Parcel Monkey or the courier co?
What you might get, would depend on what level of extra protection you took out on the delivery & if what was sent was a excluded item.

@Gehngus, thanks for describing how you came to own and sell the boiler.

The criterion in the Consumer Rights Act is whether this specific contract for services with Parcel Monkey was for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside your trade, business, craft or profession.

The boiler was acquired and sold entirely within your trade or business as part of carrying out a building contract for the owner of the cafe premises.

It was not a consumer contract, it's B2B.

A_Geordie

Alderbank said:

The criterion in the Consumer Rights Act is whether this specific contract for services with Parcel Monkey was for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside your trade, business, craft or profession.

The boiler was acquired and sold entirely within your trade or business as part of carrying out a building contract for the owner of the cafe premises.

It was not a consumer contract, it's B2B.

The OP confirmed it was gifted to them by the cafe and then subsequently installed in their home for personal use, after which it was sold. I'm unable to fathom how the boiler was bought and sold all within their trade as a business despite the OP clarifying that by the time it came to selling it, their business ceased trading. 

You are absolutely correct as to whether the contractual was one of trade, business, craft or profession but the fact the OP had it installed in their home for personal use would break the chain in suggesting that the boiler amount to a business sale.

@Gehngus This thread has been round the houses and everyone has given their two pence, including myself. It's probably time you decided what to do. Personally I think from what you've described you were acting as a consumer and it is up to Parcel Monkey to claim that you were not a consumer. Practically impossible if they have no evidence linking your eBay business account to this transaction. Others, have suggested you were not a consumer.

Seems like the only way of resolving this is through legal proceedings, whether that's worth your time and effort to pursue, only you can decide. Otherwise it may simply be a case of writing off the cost and moving on. 

sheramber

I don ‘t think Parcel Monkey raised any query about a business purchase. 

It was members of the forum who did.

Parcel Monkey’s reply was that the item was not adequately packed per their instructions on the website. 

MyRealNameToo

sheramber said:

I don ‘t think Parcel Monkey raised any query about a business purchase. 

It was members of the forum who did.

Parcel Monkey’s reply was that the item was not adequately packed per their instructions on the website. 

PM haven't, but it was the OP claiming rights under the CRA hence it was important to determine if they are a consumer in this transaction. 

Whilst I bow to @a_Georgie given they're more adapt in this field than I, it does sound a grey area particularly if the OP was working on the strip out. A different matter if they were just passing by and asked for permission to go skip diving. 

My childhood home's garden was filled with bits of industrial equipment after my father oversaw a strip out of a depot. He always said he took them as part payment but it was never clear what, if any, discount he gave for them as the price was agreed after the company had said they were just sending it all off to waste so in principle he saved them cost by taking them. 

His hope was he'd get another project in the future to commission a site and could have sold them the parts but he became ill and ultimately passed before that happened. I mean technically some did have a brief life as a plant pot and a fire extinguisher came in useful after a kitchen fire but In our case would have said it was a business transaction. In reality we sold them all for scrap after his passing and was surprised how much the guys paid us (though they had said they'd waive the collection fee if it proved to all be steel/iron which wouldn't have covered the cost)

Gehngus

Ok. Thanks for all the input. If going forward means an expense on my part then I will likley give it a miss. Especially considering being droped is also considered as part of the courier service. 
I have checked quite a few t&c's for various delivery services and it's quite a shock to see what they won't cover or compensate should they be damaged or go missing.
Watches and valuables was a curiosity, considering they ask you to pay for extra cover if it valuable?

Thanks once again👍

saajan_12

Gehngus said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Gehngus said:

I wasn't acting as a business. I'm actually a builder. This was just a sale of a water boiler that happened to come out of a cafe and was given to me. Nothing to do with my business or the old ebay account.A_Geordie said:

user1977 said:

Gehngus said:

Someone above said I couldn't consider consumer rights because I sold it from a business account whereas the courts in this case states "the Defendant was clearly acting as a trader and the Claimant was clearly a consumer."

I paid for a service?

So consumer rights do still apply?

No, unlike the case quoted you were a business paying for a service, so the additional consumer rights implied by statute do not apply.

Did the OP say they were acting in the capacity of a business? Maybe I missed it but I think they said they used a business account, that doesn't automatically mean they were acting in the capacity of a business. I think everyone was very quick to assume that the OP was trading as a business but an earlier post suggests the OP is no longer trading at the time of the sale and the account was was simply used due to there being an existing number of reviews, but also that it couldn't be converted to a private account - seems a plausible explanation to me. 

If Parcel Monkey was used outside of eBay and the business account then again, it could be argued the OP was acting as a consumer. 

I wasn't acting as a business. I'm actually a builder. This was just the sale of a water boiler that happened to come out of a cafe and was given to me. I used it in my kitchen for a while because I like the retro look of it..the wife did not. Nothing to do with my business or the old ebay account.
I was really trying to work out if the T&cs allow them to damage it from dropping (not carrying, or in transit.) it and the consensus seems to be that if it isn't wrapped in ludicrous amounts of packaging they can treat it however they like?

HMRC successfully fine hundreds of people every year who claim they arent a business but are. 

Why did a cafe give you their boiler? 

Good on HMRC. And well done for pointing that out. So they should.
HMRC write to me more often than my family.
Have been all my self employed life.
Always a give and never a thank you.

Unlike most I belive I get my moneys worth from paying tax.

The cafe shut down pre lock down and was being taken over by somebody else as a new coffee shop so everything was being stripped out and skipped. These new business see no value in reclaiming.
The boiler was a retro water boiler/steamer for heating drinks, frothing coffee etc. 
I noticed it was all going aout and decided to be cheeky and ask if they were getting rid. "Please take it". Was the reply "and anything else you want.
We used it for a few years

I am not denying I am a business. I am a builder. A self employed builder. I also own and rent out properties and land.

I have a business. Pay taxes (up front) 

People just love to think they're catching you out with little underlying coments don't they?

I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to be honest?

Has everything to do with it. If say the machine was given to you by the cafe as part compensation for your building services, that's part of your business. If you (business) let you (personal) use it for a while before you (business) sold the machine out of your (business) ebay account, then with respect to Parcel Monkey is like a B2B contract. 

If say the machine was a random gift to you (personal) unrelated to your building labour, and you (personal) used it at home for a period before you (personal) sold it albeit on a business ebay account, then with respect to Parcel Monkey it sounds more like a B2C contract. 
Ergo Consumer Rights kick in. 

IMO you do have a reasonable claim, not a slam dunk. As a consumer, you still have to reasonably pack it and they still have to do the job with due care, skill and attention. Ultimately up to a judge whether your packing was 'reasonable'. I would send a letter before action first, as that's minimal cost and may solve things for the relatively low cost. Failing that, your choice is to file a money claim online, costing £35. You'd usually recover that if you win, but that is an IF.