Dealing with 2 x deaths, one with a will and one without

Olivia2018

This could get confusing so bear with me.
On 6th August- my Nan died. Then suddenly we lost my dear dad 3
weeks later.

My Nan had made a will leaving my dad and his sister as executors. 

Dad then passed away meaning his sister would naturally be the one to start dealing with things. 

We visited the solicitor and she advised the best way to start is for my aunt to grant me power of attorney to start dealing with probate. My aunt can’t do it as she lives abroad and has to return home soon.

My Dad did not make a will, so he has died intestate. 

currently I’m waiting for power of attorney to be sorted which hopefully shouldn’t be too long.

I just feel a little stuck in what I could do next, the solicitor said to me that I would need to sort out my nans probate before doing anything with my dads because as he’s now died anything he was due to inherit will now become part of his estate. I’m not sure how correct this is, obviously it was a bit of a shock. 

Once I have power of attorney am I right in thinking I can then go ahead and fill out the IHT form for my nans estate (I don’t think her estate will be over 325)

if anyone can offer words of advice I’d be grateful! 

poseidon1

If you Nan's entire estate is under £325k then you can use the online excepted estate procedure to obtain probate for her estate ( no IHT form to complete). - see below

https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/check-type-of-estate

If your dad inherited from your Nan, clearly you cannot deal with his intestate estate until you have confirmed the net amount receivable from your Nan's estate.

However you should use the tell us once service to stop pensions being received in both estates, advise banks of the deaths to freeze their bank accounts, etc.

There will therefore be identical preliminary work that needs to be done for both estates simultaneously.

 Is there someone else that can help you? One estate can be a bit of an administrative burden, two maybe a bit overwhelming.

Keep_pedalling

You will need to establish the value of your Nan’s estate before you can value your father’s.

Do you have an idea of her estate value? What was her marital status?

RAS

What's the relationship like between your mother and father? Do you have any siblings? 

With respect to nan and dad, marital status, do either own property? If not, what's happening with their homes? 

You'll need to apply for probate for nan's estate before you can do dad's as you need the value. 

But there are things that need doing now for both including Tell Us Once, informing banks and any personal pension providers. Funeral directors can bill the banks directly for funeral costs. Can aunt help by doing those things for nan before she returns home, naming you as the future contact?

You'll find that banks etc will release money below a certain value without probate but you absolutely need to keep the money and accounts separate from your own financial accounts and each of your relative's affairs.

Olivia2018

So I have used the tell us once scheme for my dad. And before he died he did the same for my nan.

My aunt hasn’t been a great help (in my opinion, my dad took the lead with most things) I know it’s going to be a intense task with sorting out the two estates however she just wanted to hand the reins over to solicitors without even questioning how much that may cost us! 

I do have a rough value of the estate for Nan and believe it should fall just under 325. She was a widow.

my parents were divorced so the responsibility for my dad will now fall to myself, my heavily pregnant sister and my brother (who is autistic). My mum is very supportive and she has been through probate before so is happy to assist me. 

Both Nan and dad own their own houses with no mortgages and these will eventually need to be sold. The solicitor did tell me to hold off putting up nans house for sale for the time being. 

I am in the process of opening up a new and separate bank account for the moneys to be paid into. 

If both estates are having to be combined (of monies that my dad would have inherited from my nan) it will take him over the 500,000 IHT which is pretty crap really. Should I keep receipts and a log of any costs I encounter for funeral expenses, repairs, bills as can I claim these against the full amount of any IHT bill?

My dad also had a car owned outright and in his name, so what happens with the car? We have no use for it and want to sell it but I’m not sure we can yet. 

Also regarding my dad’s pension- he still worked and paid into a pension scheme, myself and siblings were listed as his nominees. When I contacted the pensions to inform them of the death they told me he would get a death benefit payment of 3 times his salary- I just wondered how long they take usually to pay this out? I know it’s exempt from the IHT pot. 

DairyQueen

POA ends on death so not sure what you mean by 'waiting for power of attorney to be sorted'. Executors administer the estates of those who are deceased. Attorneys administer the estates of those still living.

poppystar

DairyQueen said:

POA ends on death so not sure what you mean by 'waiting for power of attorney to be sorted'. Executors administer the estates of those who are deceased. Attorneys administer the estates of those still living.

As OP explained the PoA will be from her aunt to give her the power to act for her as executor of the nan’s estate.

Marcon

Olivia2018 said:

Also regarding my dad’s pension- he still worked and paid into a pension scheme, myself and siblings were listed as his nominees. When I contacted the pensions to inform them of the death they told me he would get a death benefit payment of 3 times his salary- I just wondered how long they take usually to pay this out? I know it’s exempt from the IHT pot. 

The unwelcome answer is 'longer than you hope'. Even if there is a valid and up to date Expression of Wish/Nomination Form, there are still various processes for the trustees to slog through (known as 'due diligence') before payment can actually be made. Even if matters are straightforward, 3 to 6 months is fairly common, especially if the death in service benefit is insured with an external insurance company (very common) and there is a wait for the insurer to pay out.

RAS

Thank you for the clarification.

Can understand why you are taking the burden but even a heavily pregnant sister can make a few phone calls. You need to keep everything to do with short-term issues separate.

Do not combine anything. You don't need to pay for the funerals personally or wait for probate. Just get the directors to bill their respective banks.

Set up new accounts, one for nan and one for dad, using your name and then get them renamed as "executor of nan" and "executor of dad." Because very few banks offer executor accounts these days.

Up to four people will be benefitting to different extents and it is essential that you keep the money for nan and dad separate and can provide separate accounts indicating any money was spent before distribution. 

This is even more so if your brother is autistic and receives benefits. He or his personal representative need to take advice on how to manage the inheritance, perhaps from a relevant charity.

There's still stuff to clarify. For instance, since dad was still working and his pension benefits could go to nominees, they probably fall outside the estate for IHT purposes, but that is at the gift of the scheme trustees so don't jump the gun. All the more reason to spend the time understanding the situation.

Sorry your aunt isn't more helpful. Mum can be practical help and also a place to sound off.

In the short term, with two properties, you need to check the building insurance for both now. The providers may agree to cover short-term but require regular visits, can sister's family do one, and they will require either drained water or heating to a minimum temperature. Tell utilities and council tax that the owner has died and they will suspend bills until probate is granted.

If a couple of accounts are below the ceiling to release money without probate, get them transferred to the new "executor" account set up for each deceased. Use those funds to get boilers overhauled, gutters checked,  gardens trimmed, fake lighting set up (some timed daily others weekly with different daily patterns) etc. 

With the situation regarding who is representing nan's estate not exactly as per the will, there may be queries and those sort of accounts can take a lot longer to process.

Once you have aunt's authority by all means get nan's house cleared and deep cleaned. Often people keep some furniture in situ to indicate usage of rooms to aid selling. Because probate will likely take longer, waiting to put the property on the market will be wise. You don't want a buyer who gets frustrated by probate delays and backs out.

tooldle

Does Nan have a survivorship clause in her will? Asking as you mention Dad passing 3 weeks after Nan. My will (may or may not be typical) requires the first beneficiary to survive me by 28 days. If Dad fails to inherit, what does the will say about his ‘share’? 

Keep_pedalling

As your Nan’s estate is under £650k then you are not going to have to do an IHT return for her estate. Your father’s estate however will need one if it is over £325k,  as he only has a single NRB plus the residential NRB, and the inheritance from his mother is likely to be pushing him well into IH`t territory. 

With the deaths so close together it is possible for his administrator to make a deed of variation passing his inheritance directly to his children which will prevent what would have been his inheritance with a substantial IHT liability.