Parking Fine at Railway Station Appeal Rejected. Can I contest in court?

Harvey2003

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some advice regarding a penalty notice I received back in May under Byelaw 14 of the Railway Act 2005 for allegedly not purchasing a parking ticket.

Here’s the background:

• The only ticket machine in the car park was out of order on the day.

• Signs said you could also pay on the app, but when I tried, the app wouldn’t register my vehicle.

• With no way to pay, I had no choice but to leave.

• The next day I contacted Saba (the operator) offering to pay, but I never got a reply.

I appealed to Saba and then to the independent appeals body, but both were rejected on the basis that I should have paid before leaving – even though this wasn’t possible.

Now, the case has been passed to a debt collection agency, and their letter states I could face criminal prosecution or civil proceedings.

My questions are:

1. How should I respond to this debt collection letter?

2. Do I actually have to pay at this stage?

3. If I contest this in court and lose, would it result in a County Court Judgment (CCJ) against me?

4. Has anyone here successfully challenged a similar situation where payment genuinely wasn’t possible?

I’ve kept evidence (photos of the broken machine, app error messages, and proof of contacting Saba) which I believe supports my case.

I would like to contest this formally rather than pay, as I feel strongly I’ve done nothing wrong. How do I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance,

Mark_d

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

James_Poisson

Mark_d said:

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

Sorry this is not good advice the debt collectors are not interested in any appeal or evidence they have no "action" to drop as they can't do diddly squat.

You don't need legal advice and they would probably give bad advice anyway. 

This is a scam there is no fear of a CCJ as you would have to lose in the county court and then fail to pay within the specified time scale to get a CCJ.

However, this will not go anywhere near a county court as the scam charge was supposedly issued under byelaws which are not dealt with in a county court but a magistrates court.

Saba will not be going anywhere near a magistrates court with this even if they could any moneys owing would go to the exchequer not them anyway.

You just need to string this out for two more months and it will be statute barred anyway.

Pity you didn't come here first though, never mind, don't lose any sleep.

Coupon-mad

Harvey2003 said:

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some advice regarding a penalty notice I received back in May under Byelaw 14 of the Railway Act 2005 for allegedly not purchasing a parking ticket.

Here’s the background:

• The only ticket machine in the car park was out of order on the day.

• Signs said you could also pay on the app, but when I tried, the app wouldn’t register my vehicle.

• With no way to pay, I had no choice but to leave.

• The next day I contacted Saba (the operator) offering to pay, but I never got a reply.

I appealed to Saba and then to the independent appeals body, but both were rejected on the basis that I should have paid before leaving – even though this wasn’t possible.

Now, the case has been passed to a debt collection agency, and their letter states I could face criminal prosecution or civil proceedings.

My questions are:

1. How should I respond to this debt collection letter?

2. Do I actually have to pay at this stage?

3. If I contest this in court and lose, would it result in a County Court Judgment (CCJ) against me?

4. Has anyone here successfully challenged a similar situation where payment genuinely wasn’t possible?

I’ve kept evidence (photos of the broken machine, app error messages, and proof of contacting Saba) which I believe supports my case.

I would like to contest this formally rather than pay, as I feel strongly I’ve done nothing wrong. How do I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance,

DO NOT PAY.

You don't risk a CCJ by following our advice. Yes we succeed all the time with cases like this one but SABA don't normally try small claims... and if it was a 'Penalty' they can't.

Redacting your data and PCN ref:

Show us the Penalty Notice, both sides.

Show us the appeal outcome from the appeals body. Was it the alternative railway one (not POPLA?). We want to see their full decision please.

Harvey2003

Coupon-mad said:

Harvey2003 said:

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some advice regarding a penalty notice I received back in May under Byelaw 14 of the Railway Act 2005 for allegedly not purchasing a parking ticket.

Here’s the background:

• The only ticket machine in the car park was out of order on the day.

• Signs said you could also pay on the app, but when I tried, the app wouldn’t register my vehicle.

• With no way to pay, I had no choice but to leave.

• The next day I contacted Saba (the operator) offering to pay, but I never got a reply.

I appealed to Saba and then to the independent appeals body, but both were rejected on the basis that I should have paid before leaving – even though this wasn’t possible.

Now, the case has been passed to a debt collection agency, and their letter states I could face criminal prosecution or civil proceedings.

My questions are:

1. How should I respond to this debt collection letter?

2. Do I actually have to pay at this stage?

3. If I contest this in court and lose, would it result in a County Court Judgment (CCJ) against me?

4. Has anyone here successfully challenged a similar situation where payment genuinely wasn’t possible?

I’ve kept evidence (photos of the broken machine, app error messages, and proof of contacting Saba) which I believe supports my case.

I would like to contest this formally rather than pay, as I feel strongly I’ve done nothing wrong. How do I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance,

DO NOT PAY.

You don't risk a CCJ by following our advice. Yes we succeed all the time with cases like this one but SABA don't normally try small claims... and if it was a 'Penalty' they can't.

Redacting your data and PCN ref:

Show us the Penalty Notice, both sides.

Show us the appeal outcome from the appeals body. Was it the alternative railway one (not POPLA?). We want to see their full decision please.

See attached initial penalty notice and the two appeal rejections. One from SABA’s appeal team and one from AS. 

Interestingly, the SABA appeals team is also the same company as the (although using different names) as the debt collection company. Same email and same address! 

Harvey2003

Mark_d said:

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

I’m thinking of responding to reject the debt and will offer a defence should this progress to court. Is this a good idea?

Coupon-mad

Harvey2003 said:

Mark_d said:

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

I’m thinking of responding to reject the debt and will offer a defence should this progress to court. Is this a good idea?

Beware: You are asking a poster whose previous posts (read them) suggest he/she is from the parking industry.

Do NOT engage with debt collectors.

If you want to read it from an official source, read the MSE Guide linked at the top of every page. It was fact-checked by Martin Lewis (and also by me; I was invited to help get it right).

Your only real dispute resolution comes in court but as this is a Byelaws penalty, it times out after 6 months and cannot be resurrected and morph in into a 'parking charge' as if it was issued under contract law.

It is not recoverable in the county court.

Ignore it.

That is all apart from telling SABA and their debt crawlers if you move house because you cannot miss letters, just in case they try ever this trick again, look:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80478803/#Comment_80478803

Come back if they try to morph it into a PCN and/or try to pursue it in the county court which SABA have form for attempting to do. @kryten3000  assisted a few people to see those doomed claims off (but they were only tried for multiple PN cases, not single PNs).  

BTW this is the first AS 'decision' I've ever seen and it is woefully inadequate. You can see this brief letter is a template with no thought put into the adequacy of signs, DVLA KADOE rules, the Code of Practice, the chain of liability (is the appellant the driver?keeper? Owner?)...who knows and she doesn't seem to know or care!

This Assessor doesn't even pay lip service to ANYTHING:

I don't think the MHCLG even know this third 'parking appeals service' farce exists because I would be willing to bet the industry hasn't told them (just like they didn't tell the government that there are 2 versions of the IAS. It was left to me to tell the MHCLG).

ChirpyChicken

Mark_d said:

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

This person is from the parking industry do not do not contact the DRA . You are wasting your time

James_Poisson

Harvey2003 said:

Mark_d said:

I would respond to the debt collection letter sharing the evidence you have.  They should drop the action against you or explain why they're not doing so.

Don't pay.  You know that you are in the right.  You've done everything that could be expected of you.  Don't let the fear of the CCJ force you to admit fault where you are not guilty.  Trust in the legal system.

If you have legal cover with your car insurance, maybe give them a call.

I’m thinking of responding to reject the debt and will offer a defence should this progress to court. Is this a good idea?

No it is not, as already explained debt collectors are powerless why would you engage with idiots that have no influence over anything except to demand money!

Coupon-mad

Because a poster told them to.

That's the issue with t'internet, this OP didn't know that the poster they were replying to presents here in a way that looks like they are parking industry connected.

doubledotcom

Think about it... on what planet can you get a County Court Judgement (CCJ), the operative word being "County Court", for a Penalty Notice issued for an alleged breach of a, statutory, Railway Byelaw? Anyone suggesting that you risk a CCJ for a Penalty Notice has absolutely no idea what they are on about.