Ombudsman not upheld my complaint

Nasqueron

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Section62

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Nope, still not sure.  Although you might have a different definition of 'click for the next one' than I was thinking of, and perhaps you are using the app rather than online banking as I get radio buttons instead of drop down lists, with the exception of the first page on which "payment purpose" is a drop down list.

The last sequence I got for a new payment to one of my own accounts was a total of 12 'Fraud warning' pages - of those one had a drop down list ('Payment Purpose'), three had radio buttons, and one had a simple yes/no button selection.  The other 7 pages were just slabs of text with a "Continue" button at the bottom.

If someone is being manipulated and under pressure they aren't necessarily going to spend time reading all the text, especially if the scammer is prompting them what to click.

Hence me saying "I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says."

born_again

singhini said:

I have never understood how the scam works.

If someone rang me claiming to be the bank and is saying i need to move my money as my bank account has been compromised, my response would be "i don't need to do anything, you the bank do. Its your systems that have been compromised"

i cant think of any scenario that a bank requires you to move money. When would a bank require you to move money?

I genuinely don't understand how this scam works?

The one thing ALL BANKS tell you not to do..

But these scammers are good & when someone is put under pressure they often forget advice given.

dreaming

I always feel so sorry for those who fall victim to a scam for whatever reason - they lose not only their cash but also their trust in themselves and other people. You only have to watch the BBC's Scam Interceptors to see how it works, especially with older people or those that don't have much knowledge of online banking etc.  You can almost hear the scammers rubbing their hands together when they get someone who is obviously a bit confused and the "scripts" they use just ramp up the panic. As a previous poster said - it's easy to forget all the logic and warnings when you are flustered. I nearly got caught out by an email telling me my VirginMedia payment hadn't gone through and could I update my bank details. I had just spent 2 days sitting in hospital with a seriously ill family member and returned home to freshen up when I saw the email. It looked totally genuine - logo was "authentic" - and as I had recently switched bank accounts I  thought something had gone wrong, so I started to enter the new bank details but fortunately my brain kicked into gear and I didn't send it. Obviously when I checked my bank accounts all was in order. I so very nearly gave away my details and it just added to my stress at a really bad time, and just to put it in context, I was working at the time for a financial institution so should have known better! Having said all of that. the banks have tightened up on their warnings (in my experience). I know when I have recently paid out larger sums of money for genuine reasons, which is not my usual sort of transactions, I not only get the warnings on-screen but also phone messages and authentication codes. It can be sort-of irritating, even though I know it is done for my, and the bank's, security, but I accept that I have to play my part in my own protection too. It must be difficult for the OP to have had the ombudsman rule against them but I'm sure they will have looked at all of the facts in a dispassionate way.

HedgehogRulez

Perhaps people should take a bit of personal responsibility.

GrubbyGirl_2

singhini said:

@eskbanker
Thankyou for posting all the links -----> so the banks do make it very clear they will never ask a person to move their money -----> so why so many people falling for this scam?

Because people don't educate themselves

Nasqueron

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Nope, still not sure.  Although you might have a different definition of 'click for the next one' than I was thinking of, and perhaps you are using the app rather than online banking as I get radio buttons instead of drop down lists, with the exception of the first page on which "payment purpose" is a drop down list.

The last sequence I got for a new payment to one of my own accounts was a total of 12 'Fraud warning' pages - of those one had a drop down list ('Payment Purpose'), three had radio buttons, and one had a simple yes/no button selection.  The other 7 pages were just slabs of text with a "Continue" button at the bottom.

If someone is being manipulated and under pressure they aren't necessarily going to spend time reading all the text, especially if the scammer is prompting them what to click.

Hence me saying "I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says."

Nope, still sure, you cannot "just click through without reading", this is factually incorrect.

As you state yourself, you have to choose radio buttons - an active choice is required, same as choose from the drop down on the app, you must make the choice to pick an option which requires reading.

QED they cannot just click through without reading and therefore the statement is proven false.

friolento

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Nope, still not sure.  Although you might have a different definition of 'click for the next one' than I was thinking of, and perhaps you are using the app rather than online banking as I get radio buttons instead of drop down lists, with the exception of the first page on which "payment purpose" is a drop down list.

The last sequence I got for a new payment to one of my own accounts was a total of 12 'Fraud warning' pages - of those one had a drop down list ('Payment Purpose'), three had radio buttons, and one had a simple yes/no button selection.  The other 7 pages were just slabs of text with a "Continue" button at the bottom.

If someone is being manipulated and under pressure they aren't necessarily going to spend time reading all the text, especially if the scammer is prompting them what to click.

Hence me saying "I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says."

Nope, still sure, you cannot "just click through without reading", this is factually incorrect.

As you state yourself, you have to choose radio buttons - an active choice is required, same as choose from the drop down on the app, you must make the choice to pick an option which requires reading.

QED they cannot just click through without reading and therefore the statement is proven false.

I can assure you that I have clicked through without reading dozens, if not hundreds, of times, as it's the same each and every time the multiple warnings pop up in Santander. If there is something to tick before being able to continue, I tick it without reading much.

Nasqueron

friolento said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Nope, still not sure.  Although you might have a different definition of 'click for the next one' than I was thinking of, and perhaps you are using the app rather than online banking as I get radio buttons instead of drop down lists, with the exception of the first page on which "payment purpose" is a drop down list.

The last sequence I got for a new payment to one of my own accounts was a total of 12 'Fraud warning' pages - of those one had a drop down list ('Payment Purpose'), three had radio buttons, and one had a simple yes/no button selection.  The other 7 pages were just slabs of text with a "Continue" button at the bottom.

If someone is being manipulated and under pressure they aren't necessarily going to spend time reading all the text, especially if the scammer is prompting them what to click.

Hence me saying "I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says."

Nope, still sure, you cannot "just click through without reading", this is factually incorrect.

As you state yourself, you have to choose radio buttons - an active choice is required, same as choose from the drop down on the app, you must make the choice to pick an option which requires reading.

QED they cannot just click through without reading and therefore the statement is proven false.

I can assure you that I have clicked through without reading dozens, if not hundreds, of times, as it's the same each and every time the multiple warnings pop up in Santander. If there is something to tick before being able to continue, I tick it without reading much.

Again though, you must actively select an option on the drop down or radio button, QED the statement "you can just click through without reading" is incorrect as that process is impossible. When you are required to make a choice, you have to stop and think, hence why banks do it to try and prevent losses and to cover themselves if someone still gives away money to scammers despite warnings

GeoffTF

Nasqueron said:

friolento said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

Section62 said:

Nasqueron said:

singhini said:

@eskbanker
i totally agree and understand what your saying.

But every time i raise the question "When would a bank require you to move money?"   no body gives me an answer (nor have i ever seem the banks come out and say this i.e, "we would never ask you to move your money" (so im guessing perhaps they would ask you to move your money, but as i say ive never been given an answer and thus can't work out the mechanics of the scam).

Someone please enlighten me so i too don't fall victim to it

Santander especially is very VERY vigilant on these, you have to go through about 10 pages to move money to a new account even after they verify the account name etc. I routinely move money to the Edge saver and when needed for a bill, move it out, something I do the same time every month to the same account in my name, same amounts almost every time (CC bill is the only one that changes) and they still ask you to confirm it all. It's incredibly hard to get through all that without realising it's not legit to move 

Not so sure about that.  With Santander there are simply so many pages to go through it becomes easy to just click for the next one without really reading what the page says... I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says.  Sometimes less is more.

It probably covers Santander well though if the victim subsequently claims they weren't sufficiently warned about scams.

No you should be sure about that, I didn't go into every step but there are at least 2 if not 3 you have to choose from drop downs, you cannot just click through

Nope, still not sure.  Although you might have a different definition of 'click for the next one' than I was thinking of, and perhaps you are using the app rather than online banking as I get radio buttons instead of drop down lists, with the exception of the first page on which "payment purpose" is a drop down list.

The last sequence I got for a new payment to one of my own accounts was a total of 12 'Fraud warning' pages - of those one had a drop down list ('Payment Purpose'), three had radio buttons, and one had a simple yes/no button selection.  The other 7 pages were just slabs of text with a "Continue" button at the bottom.

If someone is being manipulated and under pressure they aren't necessarily going to spend time reading all the text, especially if the scammer is prompting them what to click.

Hence me saying "I can more than believe many people do simply click past the messages without taking on board what each one says."

Nope, still sure, you cannot "just click through without reading", this is factually incorrect.

As you state yourself, you have to choose radio buttons - an active choice is required, same as choose from the drop down on the app, you must make the choice to pick an option which requires reading.

QED they cannot just click through without reading and therefore the statement is proven false.

I can assure you that I have clicked through without reading dozens, if not hundreds, of times, as it's the same each and every time the multiple warnings pop up in Santander. If there is something to tick before being able to continue, I tick it without reading much.

Again though, you must actively select an option on the drop down or radio button, QED the statement "you can just click through without reading" is incorrect as that process is impossible. When you are required to make a choice, you have to stop and think, hence why banks do it to try and prevent losses and to cover themselves if someone still gives away money to scammers despite warnings

I have never had a drop down or radio buttons. I just click to move on. That might have changed in the last couple of weeks though. It may also be that different people and / or different transactions are treated differently.