Misleading advert

MyRealNameToo

user1977 said:

born_again said:

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Yes, but the laws around servicing and selling are different. Renewing a policy is legally the sale of a new policy as neither party is legally obliged to offer/accept the renewal. 

Banks can have issues with you applying for a new account whilst overseas, even if you are normally resident in the UK. This is the closer equivalent to renewing an insurance policy. 

Even if customer is on holiday. We will not open any new account. So a very valid point. 👍

Will you renew a maturing regular saver? 

VPN's also get picked up by the systems, as they do not match users IP.

Who insists that you connect from the same IP address for everything? I've never encountered problems with logging into sites via different networks (broadband at home/work, mobile via personal/work phones give at least four possible IP addresses for a start).

It's more the other way around, certain IPs are known to be used by VPNs and so you can know the geolocation is unreliable. 

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Yes, but the laws around servicing and selling are different. Renewing a policy is legally the sale of a new policy as neither party is legally obliged to offer/accept the renewal. 

Banks can have issues with you applying for a new account whilst overseas, even if you are normally resident in the UK. This is the closer equivalent to renewing an insurance policy. 

Even if customer is on holiday. We will not open any new account. So a very valid point. 👍

Will you renew a maturing regular saver? 

No. As it is a new product.
Customer has to be in UK. 
VPN's also get picked up by the systems, as they do not match users IP.

Hmm. But one can give maturity instructions and then go abroad; so at the moment of account opening they will not be in the UK. So what's the difference? 

I don't think I have ever seen something like "I will be in the UK on the day the account matures" on maturity instruction. 

It's where the point of sale happens thats important, not the date the account opens. Same with insurance, you can agree your insurance to start in a months time when in the UK and then go on a 6 month holiday so the policy incepts whilst you are away. This is still fine because you bought the policy whilst in the UK. 

This was months of my life around Brexit time and the rules are different around insurance and reinsurance, there are exceptions for certain classes of insurance in certain countries especially for things that are typically international in nature like Marine and Space. Plus then also the complexity of Lloyds of London and what their response was going to be. 

Emily_Joy

MyRealNameToo said:

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

No. As it is a new product.
Customer has to be in UK. 
VPN's also get picked up by the systems, as they do not match users IP.

Hmm. But one can give maturity instructions and then go abroad; so at the moment of account opening they will not be in the UK. So what's the difference? 

I don't think I have ever seen something like "I will be in the UK on the day the account matures" on maturity instruction. 

It's where the point of sale happens thats important, not the date the account opens. Same with insurance, you can agree your insurance to start in a months time when in the UK and then go on a 6 month holiday so the policy incepts whilst you are away. This is still fine because you bought the policy whilst in the UK. 

This was months of my life around Brexit time and the rules are different around insurance and reinsurance, there are exceptions for certain classes of insurance in certain countries especially for things that are typically international in nature like Marine and Space. Plus then also the complexity of Lloyds of London and what their response was going to be. 

Alright, but how does the phone call solve the problem then? In my case Safeguard had no issues renewing my policy when I called them. They didn't even ask whether I am in the UK or anywhere else in the world.
I believe (though I haven't tried) the same will be the case for phone banking - i.e. if the account can be opened using phone banking, it can be opened by an existing customer, who is registered for phone banking, from anywhere in the world. 

born_again

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Yes, but the laws around servicing and selling are different. Renewing a policy is legally the sale of a new policy as neither party is legally obliged to offer/accept the renewal. 

Banks can have issues with you applying for a new account whilst overseas, even if you are normally resident in the UK. This is the closer equivalent to renewing an insurance policy. 

Even if customer is on holiday. We will not open any new account. So a very valid point. 👍

Will you renew a maturing regular saver? 

No. As it is a new product.
Customer has to be in UK. 
VPN's also get picked up by the systems, as they do not match users IP.

Hmm. But one can give maturity instructions and then go abroad; so at the moment of account opening they will not be in the UK. So what's the difference? 

I don't think I have ever seen something like "I will be in the UK on the day the account matures" on maturity instruction. 

Maturity has nothing to do with where you are. As that is something that will automatically happen.
What you can't do (depends on bank. Santander auto renews if you have a open-ended DD set up, others will need a new one setting up) is open a new account while oversea's.

Back to your case, clearly ins co have set up access to your account area to only allow from UK. Which given the amount of fraud to Ins co's is easy to understand. Also stops people abusing the max time you are allowed to leave a house empty, by taking holidays over their limit.

Okell

Emily_Joy said:

... I just want to register a complain because of the inconvenience it all caused. 
Are there any regulations I should refer to when registering the complaint? 

Apart from a hypothetical - but nonetheless interesting - discussion about what transactions a UK citizen can carry out abroad, is all your looking for as regards your insurer to make a complaint?

Well go ahead and do so, and point out to them the inconvenience you have experienced and unexpected phone costs you have incurred because you had relied on their false statement that you could renew online from "anywhere" - the clear implication being "anywhere in the world".  Hopefully they'll offer you a "goodwill gesture" of some money.

Complain on their social media too.

I'm not sure what regulations you could use to support any complaint.  It's not clear to me that you've been misled by an advert, but if an advert could be defined - at least in part - as " a statement that promotes a product or service"* then you could argue that the email you received informing you about the ability to manage your policy online was an "advert" promoting that service.  You could point out that one of the requirements of an advert is that it should be legal, decent, honest and true.  In this case, what they appeared to be telling you was self-evidently not true.

If no satisfaction from your insurer you could always try the ASA:  Make a complaint - ASA | CAP



*  That seems to me to be a reasonable definition but it's something I've made up myself.  I've no legal authority for it

MyRealNameToo

Emily_Joy said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Emily_Joy said:

born_again said:

No. As it is a new product.
Customer has to be in UK. 
VPN's also get picked up by the systems, as they do not match users IP.

Hmm. But one can give maturity instructions and then go abroad; so at the moment of account opening they will not be in the UK. So what's the difference? 

I don't think I have ever seen something like "I will be in the UK on the day the account matures" on maturity instruction. 

It's where the point of sale happens thats important, not the date the account opens. Same with insurance, you can agree your insurance to start in a months time when in the UK and then go on a 6 month holiday so the policy incepts whilst you are away. This is still fine because you bought the policy whilst in the UK. 

This was months of my life around Brexit time and the rules are different around insurance and reinsurance, there are exceptions for certain classes of insurance in certain countries especially for things that are typically international in nature like Marine and Space. Plus then also the complexity of Lloyds of London and what their response was going to be. 

Alright, but how does the phone call solve the problem then? In my case Safeguard had no issues renewing my policy when I called them. They didn't even ask whether I am in the UK or anywhere else in the world.
I believe (though I haven't tried) the same will be the case for phone banking - i.e. if the account can be opened using phone banking, it can be opened by an existing customer, who is registered for phone banking, from anywhere in the world. 

Assuming you are calling from your UK mobile they can't tell where in the world you are as it will always ID as a UK number. The FS company may be willing to run the risk rather than have the operational overhead of asking every caller where they currently are. 

Regulators typically expect you to take reasonable steps; doesnt mean they get out of jail free if they sell services to people in their country when they dont have a licence to operate in their country but the consequences most likely would be much less if you have reasonable controls and someone got round them -v- you could easily have seen that thousands of customers are in France where you dont have a licence but you kept opening new accounts etc. 

Exodi

flaneurs_lobster said:

I can see the OP's point but it's really about semantics, do the words quoted in the marketing blurb mean that there should be true full access 24/7 from anywhere or does the use of the term "online" mean that such access is possible if you can establish a full-fat secure session on your device, which the OP was unable to do. 

Indeed, I personally think we're arguing semantics here.

Why not go further - they promote it as accessible "anywhere, anytime" - is it accessible at the bottom of the pacific ocean? How about on the moon? Was the website accessible in the 1800s? Do they guarantee it will be accessible ad infinitum?

It's just marketing. As user1977 says, their actual T&C's confirm the website is designed for us in the UK. FWIW many service providers do not allow foreign access (I remember visiting my parents in France, half my apps didn't work, some of them didn't work even with a VPN).

eskbanker

Okell said:

I'm not sure what regulations you could use to support any complaint.  It's not clear to me that you've been misled by an advert, but if an advert could be defined - at least in part - as " a statement that promotes a product or service"* then you could argue that the email you received informing you about the ability to manage your policy online was an "advert" promoting that service.  You could point out that one of the requirements of an advert is that it should be legal, decent, honest and true.  In this case, what they appeared to be telling you was self-evidently not true.

If no satisfaction from your insurer you could always try the ASA:  Make a complaint - ASA | CAP

*  That seems to me to be a reasonable definition but it's something I've made up myself.  I've no legal authority for it

If wishing to go to the ASA, it'll be best to work with their definitions:

Areas of complaint inside our remit

The types of ads we deal with include: 

• Press ads  
• Radio and TV ads (including teleshopping presentations)
• Ads on the internet, smartphones and tablets
• Ad claims on companies’ own websites
• Commercial e-mail and text messages
• Posters/billboards
• Leaflets and brochures  
• Ads at the cinema
• Direct mail, whether addressed to you personally or not

https://www.asa.org.uk/about-asa-and-cap/the-work-we-do/what-we-cover.html

This page also covers what's outside their remit, including:

Financial advertising

We have powers to investigate financial advertising on TV and radio, but complaints about product-related claims in non-broadcast ads for mortgages, general insurance, investments, pensions, cash savings and bank accounts are dealt with by the Financial Conduct Authority. See, however, the information on credit advertising above.

Okell

@eskbanker -  the OP received an email telling her about (ie advertising) the availability of a new online service by which to manage her account.  Does this qualify under "Commercial email and text messages"?

AIUI the email she received was not necessarily promoting (advertising) a general insurance product, it was telling her about a new online service that would allow her to manage her existing account in a new way.  So her complaint would not not be about an insurance product per se, but about the (apparently) false claim that she could manage her account online from "anywhere".

I think those are two distinct things.

However, I suspect that as @flaneurs_lobster and @Exodi are perhaps suggesting, the ASA (or FCA if it did turn out to be an insurance product advert) could quite possibly decide that the word "anywhere" was obviously an advertising puff and was never intended literally to mean anywhere in the world.  (Or universe...)

Still, if I were the OP and wanted to make a deal out of it (and it's now on page 4) I'd at least complain to the insurer along the lines I suggested.  What has she got to lose?

eskbanker

Okell said:

@eskbanker -  the OP received an email telling her about (ie advertising) the availability of a new online service by which to manage her account.  Does this qualify under "Commercial email and text messages"?

Possibly - I could see it going either way!  There is an argument that, in the context of the rest of that list, it really means promotional sales-related mailings, whereas, as you say, this is probably more accurately characterised as simply advising existing account-holders of new features associated with their product.

Okell said:

AIUI the email she received was not necessarily promoting (advertising) a general insurance product, it was telling her about a new online service that would allow her to manage her existing account in a new way.  So her complaint would not not be about an insurance product per se, but about the (apparently) false claim that she could manage her account online from "anywhere".

The wording isn't restricted to promoting a product as such, but product-related claims.

It still seems to me that FCA, or rather FOS, will be a far more suitable avenue to escalate to with a complaint about claims made by a regulated financial business, rather than going down the ASA route....

born_again

As @Okell
A complaint at best would get what is best known as a  "go away payment". if you try the sugar approach.