HELP ! Which washing machine ?

jennifernil

Albermarle said:

When DS got married in 1998 we treated them to a Bosch machine, they only replaced it about 3 years back, no idea what they have now, must check next time we visit.
When DD needed a new washing machine in her first flat, back in 2004, she bought a Bosch, it only failed in July this year.  
Both families have 2 kids, so lots of washing.

Difficult to believe that a heavily used washing machine could last 25 years, unless it had some repairs along the way. Normally, the bushes on the electric motor would need replacing a couple of times at least.

Our last machine was a Siemens ( in theory very similar to a Bosch but a bit more expensive). It did get a lot of use ( 15/20 washes a week ), and the bushes needed replacing after 6 years, and the bearings went after about 9 years, which effectively meant the end of its life. From research at the time, this longevity was approx what was expected.

 No, no repairs ever needed.  We too were surprised at how long it lasted!

However it did not get the sort of use you mentioned, I would say probably a load every day at the most.  There was only the 2 of them for the first 8 years.

casper_gutman

That's pretty similar to the life of our cheap (<£200) Beko, which has lasted 8 years (from June 2017 to yesterday when the motor died). Given the cost differential between the manufacturers,* I will continue to be impressed with the value for money offered by Beko appliances.

*I could buy three of that Beko machine for the price of one Siemens, and have enough left over for an evening at the pub.

ic

casper_gutman said:

I've seen plenty of people elsewhere saying the long cycles on modern washing machines can't be energy efficient. They couldn't be more wrong! The 40 degree Eco wash on mine takes forever, but somehow uses (according to the manufacture and to independent reviews) half as much energy as the standard 20 degree wash. Unless you look up the figures you can really have no idea.

The part of a cycle that uses the most energy is heating the water - so the less water the machine can use the better.  The motor driving the drum tends to be highly efficient now, so by using a small amount of water, there's less to heat - instead the machine will just spend a long time being thorough with it.

I've seen Ebac are pushing their machines a lot online - and their tag line is about how efficient they are - but they're all C rated machines (which they hasten to add was A++ on the old scheme) - but there's plenty of machines available on the market that are A rated.  Ebac have hot fill washing machines - which are only good if your have a tank of hot water located within a metre of the machine - otherwise the hot pipe is only going to deliver cold water from the pipes anyway - which the machine will then heat electrically the same as from the cold feed!  Any hot water pulled in to the pipes will then sit in the pipes cooling down - a total waste.  Ebac are trading on people harping back to 80s tech.

Albermarle

ic said:

casper_gutman said:

I've seen plenty of people elsewhere saying the long cycles on modern washing machines can't be energy efficient. They couldn't be more wrong! The 40 degree Eco wash on mine takes forever, but somehow uses (according to the manufacture and to independent reviews) half as much energy as the standard 20 degree wash. Unless you look up the figures you can really have no idea.

The part of a cycle that uses the most energy is heating the water - so the less water the machine can use the better.  The motor driving the drum tends to be highly efficient now, so by using a small amount of water, there's less to heat - instead the machine will just spend a long time being thorough with it.

I've seen Ebac are pushing their machines a lot online - and their tag line is about how efficient they are - but they're all C rated machines (which they hasten to add was A++ on the old scheme) - but there's plenty of machines available on the market that are A rated.  Ebac have hot fill washing machines - which are only good if your have a tank of hot water located within a metre of the machine - otherwise the hot pipe is only going to deliver cold water from the pipes anyway - which the machine will then heat electrically the same as from the cold feed!  Any hot water pulled in to the pipes will then sit in the pipes cooling down - a total waste.  Ebac are trading on people harping back to 80s tech.

Regarding the ECO cycles, they may use less energy, but surely the very long program length must in the end mean that the machine will wear out quicker, which is not so eco friendly ?

I agree about the hot fill. Our water takes ages to run hot downstairs, so would just be a total waste of time and in fact it would be significantly less energy efficient due to the hot water wasted in the pipework.

Section62

Albermarle said:

Regarding the ECO cycles, they may use less energy, but surely the very long program length must in the end mean that the machine will wear out quicker, which is not so eco friendly ?

The longer programme length often includes long periods of soaking, with only occasional gentle agitation.  I've never measured the time the motor is actually running, but overall I'd expect a longer more gentle programme to do less damage than a faster more intensive one.

Albermarle said:

I agree about the hot fill. Our water takes ages to run hot downstairs, so would just be a total waste of time and in fact it would be significantly less energy efficient due to the hot water wasted in the pipework.

Might be worth getting your hot water pipework better insulated.  Good insulation should reduce the pipework heat loss considerably, and if the hot water is heated using a cheap (e.g. off-peak/solar) method then to cost of hot-fill might work out cheaper than cold-fill only.

flaneurs_lobster

Section62 said:

I've never measured the time the motor is actually running

Lightweight 🙂

Section62

flaneurs_lobster said:

Section62 said:

I've never measured the time the motor is actually running

Lightweight 🙂

Yeah, three hours of watching the drum going round is beyond the limits of my dedication to the task.

ic

Albermarle said:

Regarding the ECO cycles, they may use less energy, but surely the very long program length must in the end mean that the machine will wear out quicker, which is not so eco friendly ?

Modern washing machines have motors that are induction direct drive (i.e. bolted immediately to the back of the drum) - there are no bushes, wheels or rubber bands to wear out like traditional machines.

Albermarle

ic said:

Albermarle said:

Regarding the ECO cycles, they may use less energy, but surely the very long program length must in the end mean that the machine will wear out quicker, which is not so eco friendly ?

Modern washing machines have motors that are induction direct drive (i.e. bolted immediately to the back of the drum) - there are no bushes, wheels or rubber bands to wear out like traditional machines.

Thanks for that info. I asked Copilot/AI about it just out of interest.

According to that, you can have induction or brushless DC, both of which need less maintenance than traditional motor.
However cheaper machines still use belt drives, according to AI anyway.