Important documents - fireproof safe?

Yorkie1

I'm starting to put together my important documents (birth certificate, insurance, house guarantees etc) for either my own or (hopefully in decades' time) my executors' use.

Obviously, there's a risk of theft and/or fire for paper documents and so I'm thinking in terms of a fireproof safe, with waterproof bags inside for the documents.

Is there anything I should take into consideration in researching good quality safes?

[I'm also starting to compile a s/sheet with all the relevant details and accounts etc. Not sure yet how to save this and also let them have access without compromising online security. But that's for another time!]

Thanks.

MyRealNameToo

There is little risk of theft of paper documents, though putting them in a safe probably increases the risks as thieves may hope there is something more valuable in there. 

Fire and Water are a risk to them however I'd potentially question how important your identified important documents are as birth certificates if from the UK can be reissued with minimal fuss/hassle, insurance documents are predominately digital these days... 

The only ones which are physical, that are potential a target for theft and are costly to replace really is passports. 

Yorkie1

Thanks. Yes, the risk of attracting attention to a safe had occurred to me too.

I am reluctant to scan and put everything online though.

tacpot12

There are various designs of safe that might allow you to make them harder for a thief to find them. e.g. a floor safe can be covered by a peice of furniture. A wall safe might be fixed to gable wall in the attic. I have my firesafe in the cellar covered with a jumble of DIY tools and materials.

The waterproof bags are essential as in a fire, you hope that the fire brigade will turn up promptly and put the fire out with copious quanities of water!

I also have a spreadsheet for details that will be useful to my executors in the event of my death, but have this stored in Dropbox, which I regard as sufficiently secure.

My user id and password to Dropbox are stored in a Password Manager that I pay for. All of my financial accounts require two-factor authentication via an authenticator app on my phone, which is protected by a PIN. The phone is protected by a different PIN.

My password for my Password Manager and pin numbers for my Phone and Authenticator App are hidden in the house in a place where my executors know to look for them. (Not the fire safe!)

Cairnpapple

I recently bought a fireproof/water resistant folder for this purpose but sent it back because I measured incorrectly and it wouldn't fit on my shelf.  I'm now wondering whether I actually need the fireproof/water resistant aspects or whether what I actually need is a distinctive folder that I could grab in an emergency and my executors would easily recognise. Maybe pop my passport in a plastic bag.

There was a fairly recent thread on spreadsheets for executors. If you leave a list of institutions then that should be enough, they shouldn't be logging in with your passwords. They'll be able to gain access using death certificate, or POA if you're alive but incapacitated.

MyRealNameToo

Yorkie1 said:

Thanks. Yes, the risk of attracting attention to a safe had occurred to me too.

I am reluctant to scan and put everything online though.

Your insurance docs are likely to be online anyway. 
Anything from the GRO can be replaced within a week for a relatively modest sum. 
Deeds are online for a tiny sum. 
Passports I accept are a consideration but their highest risk is when you are actually travelling which your safe won't help with. 

Personally would go through your docs and see which really are important to be kept and cannot be replaced quickly and cheaply. A good fire proof safe that will actually survive a major fire and can't be opened with a magnet etc isnt cheap and nor is fitting it if its going to be in floor or in wall to reduce the risk of theft. The risk is you spend much more on the safe than the cost of replacing the documents 

Yorkie1

tacpot12 said:

There are various designs of safe that might allow you to make them harder for a thief to find them. e.g. a floor safe can be covered by a peice of furniture. A wall safe might be fixed to gable wall in the attic. I have my firesafe in the cellar covered with a jumble of DIY tools and materials.

The waterproof bags are essential as in a fire, you hope that the fire brigade will turn up promptly and put the fire out with copious quanities of water!

I also have a spreadsheet for details that will be useful to my executors in the event of my death, but have this stored in Dropbox, which I regard as sufficiently secure.

My user id and password to Dropbox are stored in a Password Manager that I pay for. All of my financial accounts require two-factor authentication via an authenticator app on my phone, which is protected by a PIN. The phone is protected by a different PIN.

My password for my Password Manager and pin numbers for my Phone and Authenticator App are hidden in the house in a place where my executors know to look for them. (Not the fire safe!)

Thanks tacpot12. Much food for thought.

I have shied away from Password managers (can't quite get my head around how it works with more than one device e.g. laptop and mobile, and also the inherent fear of online security being compromised). But it's something I do need to tackle and get my head around, I think.

Hadn't thought of Dropbox. Again one to consider.

I have MS Authenticator on my phone; not sure if it's PIN protected. Banking apps are fingerprint protected on the phone. So much to consider!!

Yorkie1

Cairnpapple said:

I recently bought a fireproof/water resistant folder for this purpose but sent it back because I measured incorrectly and it wouldn't fit on my shelf.  I'm now wondering whether I actually need the fireproof/water resistant aspects or whether what I actually need is a distinctive folder that I could grab in an emergency and my executors would easily recognise. Maybe pop my passport in a plastic bag.

There was a fairly recent thread on spreadsheets for executors. If you leave a list of institutions then that should be enough, they shouldn't be logging in with your passwords. They'll be able to gain access using death certificate, or POA if you're alive but incapacitated.

I've been bookmarking relevant threads! Have also used information from here: 

Checklist Documents to Organise for Your Executor - My Will and Probate and will cross-reference against the Age UK LifeBook for other aspects. LifeBook | Age UK

And for digital stuff:
How to Prepare Your Digital Life for Your Death

Peter999_2

I scanned all my documents in a few years back and put anything new in the same location (I do keep things like my actual birth certificate but that's more for sentimental reasons).

What I do is keep them on Microsoft Onedrive.   Obviously I don't trust Microsoft not to snoop in them so everything is encrypted before it's put on there.    I use software called Cryptomator (open source so free though I donate money each year to it).

This creates a drive on my laptop (D:) and I can see all the files on there.    As I add files to the drive it automatically encrypt them and uploads them to OneDrive.   

I have a password manager called keepass that is stored in the drive.    I install cryptomator on 3 different laptops and PCs and also keep all the documents on 3 USB sticks which are also encrypted.
I've been using this a few years now and no problems so far.

Eldi_Dos

Recently I have been doing something similar,think it may have been prompted by the shortening of the nights, and I just went old school. Manila folders, appropriately marked stored in reasonable metal document case stored in wardrobe.
For to make it easier for executors I have come to the conclusion the most helpful thing to do is have a good cull of old paperwork that is not really relevant anymore.Hopefully this will ease the load at what will be a stressful time for them.
It was surprisingly difficult and time consuming but felt better for it.