Motorway variable speed limit speeding fine, inadequate signage

avinashvv

Hi All,
I have received a speeding ticket on a variable speed limit at around 10pm. The variable limit was set to 50 without any prior warning or gradual reductions in speed. All the previous gantries before this speed limit sign and camera were unlit at this time. So I didn't get an opportunity to adjust my speed limit to a reduced speed from the national speed limit. I was travelling at 72mph. I have recieved a offer for fixed penalty of £100 +3 points. Is it worth fighting in court? I dont have any previous fines or points. The speed camera was on the first warning sign of 50.

My reasons for challenge are:
1.  No prior warnings about a new speed limit in place
2. The car in front of me suddenly breaked near the gantry and this forced me to change lanes for safety, and I was about to slow down after this maneuver when I was in the new lane but it was too late
3. There were two gantries before this one which were unlit and I feel that there should have been warings lit on these for the motorists to safely slow down before the cameras/ work location.
4. I have always seen gradual reductions or one or more warnings when reduced to much slower speeds for safely reducing speeds. I feel this is a rare instance where no prior warnings were given.
5. I didn't feel safe slamming on my brakes immediately after noticing the new speed limit as I just merged back into a lane after overtaking another car plus it was night and there was a good amount of traffic at the time.
6. Have called national highways helpline to discuss this and they have mentioned that usually such reductions should be gradual, but asked me to send am email to get a formal response.

I have dashcam footage of the incident. Any help would be appreciated. I coudnt any discussions similar to my issue.

DE_612183

might be worth asking here: https://www.ftla.uk/

Keep_pedalling

Looks like you had plenty of time to slow down. Also the cameras don’t become active immediately the speed limit appears on the gantry, there is always a delay so people who are actually paying attention are not caught out.

Sorry I think you are bang to rights on this one.

Car_54

No "prior warning" is needed. Throughout the country, there are countless examples of a transition from NSL (60) to 30 with no such warning.

You say "The car in front of me suddenly breaked near the gantry and this forced me to change lanes for safety," Couldn't you have braked too? Were you driving too close to do so safely?

victor2

As above. It looks like the signs were illuminated well before you reached the gantry, giving you plenty of time to slow down. But, use the link provided by @DE_612183 for more information.

avinashvv

I was driving on cruise control and usually the car adjusts to speeds automatically after it passes the first sign. I was trusting this was ok as i got atleast one warning on my previous experiance. 

Car_54 said:

No "prior warning" is needed. Throughout the country, there are countless examples of a transition from NSL (60) to 30 with no such warning.

You say "The car in front of me suddenly breaked near the gantry and this forced me to change lanes for safety," Couldn't you have braked too? Were you driving too close to do so safely?

I didnt break hardly partly due to this and there was another car behind me I previously overtook.

Keep_pedalling said:

Looks like you had plenty of time to slow down. Also the cameras don’t become active immediately the speed limit appears on the gantry, there is always a delay so people who are actually paying attention are not caught out.

Sorry I think you are bang to rights on this one.

Yes, this limit was active 6 minutes ago, I know my defence is not based on this but about prior warning.

Isthisforreal99

Number 2 - all this demonstrates is that you were not paying attention or driving too close to them You really shouldn't have to change lane if the car in front brakes sharply. What if it were a single carriegway.

Think what has happened is others saw the reduced limit approaching, you didn't.

caprikid1

"I was driving on cruise control and usually the car adjusts to speeds automatically after it passes the first sign. I was trusting this was ok as i got atleast one warning on my previous experiance. "

Driving with undue care and attention carries more points.

avinashvv

caprikid1 said:

"I was driving on cruise control and usually the car adjusts to speeds automatically after it passes the first sign. I was trusting this was ok as i got atleast one warning on my previous experiance. "

Driving with undue care and attention carries more points.

Thanks  I was not planning to use this as an argument. I did see the sign and waiting for the sign to pass, so that the car will slow down (actually after pulling the curise control lever, not fully automatically)

fwor

Unfortunately you cannot use a driver aid such as cruise control as a valid reason for exceeding the speed limit. As a driver it is your responsibility to use the car's controls to drive safely and within the law.

Visually, your dashcam footage shows that you had plenty of time to slow from 72 to 50MPH.

Mildly_Miffed

As with every speed limit change, the new limit comes into effect immediately you pass the sign. Not before, not after.

So this is a question of how far away can you see an illuminated sign on a motorway gantry from?

The signs are 1300mm in diameter.

The bare minimum eyesight requirement to legally drive is to read a 79mm high number plate character from at least 20m away.

For a similar proportion of sign size versus distance, you would need to be approximately 330m away from the gantry. It would seem to me that that distance is PERFECTLY sufficient to safely lose 20mph without needing to resort to "slamming on your brakes". Especially since a quick look at a typical variable limit motorway (M42 between M40 and M6) suggests they are around 250m apart. National Highways confirm that legislation requires the signage to be legible from at least 300m.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/road-safety/variable-speed-limits/

Relying on "but there was so much other traffic it wasn't safe to slow down" is not the greatest defence for being very nearly 50% above the limit, especially when your own dashcam images show very little other traffic around your car.

You were nearly 10mph above the upper threshold for a course being offered, and only a few mph below the upper threshold for a fixed penalty to be offered.