PCN from Parking Eye from Holiday Inn Preston South - Company Car

recordplayer

Hello,

First, thank you all for your advice which you have so generously given on this board, this has given me the confidence to believe I can fight this successfully.

Second, I am aware that your time is precious, so will try to be brief and succinct.

On 30th August I received a PCN from Parking Eye, a BPA member, regarding a charge I allegedly incurred at Tesla Supercharging station located Holiday Inn Preston South. The PCN shows the vehicle arriving and departing, with time and date stamp, and alleges that I should have registered the vehicle at reception, as I did not I have incurred a charge. There were no notices on the chargers, at the entrance or in the sight line of the driver. I will be returning on foot to photograph the site and will post said photographs here for others to refer to in future.

The vehicle is registered to a limited company (registered address different to vehicle keeper address) the PCN was sent to keeper address, not company registered address where legal documents should be sent. The vehicle has multiple drivers at company.

Reading the newbie guides and stick notes here, I think I should use the Edna Basher template letter as used here to in my response to Parking Eye:-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5378874/new-generation-parking-management-on-yellow-lines/p2

Am I correct in this?

I am somewhat hesitant as this makes reference to a vehicle which is currently leased, this vehicle is not leased but is owned by company outright, so I think references to 'Keepers Liability and POFA 2012' para 13 (2), Para 14 (2) & (3) are not applicable and should be omitted. Am I correct in that or must they be kept in under these circumstances? Every other points raised and question asked do look applicable.

Am I in any way on the right path here or have I wondered off track.

Any advice would be most greatly appreciated

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Gr1pr

If you are NOT the RK then use the advice by Edna Basher regarding hire, lease and company vehicles,  because effectively you are or were the hirer/ lessee  / day to day keeper,  so the RK probably named you as hirer, meaning that your Parking Eye pcn , with your name on it,  is a Notice to Hirer,  but probably didn't include the Pofa2012 inclusions, such as a copy of the agreement etc

Meaning a POFA 2012 fail as long as you dont disclose who was driving 

Personally,  I would not appeal at first, waiting until nearer the deadline,  I would complain directly to Holiday inn and get them to cancel the PCN , plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

Appealing as hirer is plan B , before the appeal deadline expires 

I am led to believe that the Tesla app tells drivers about registering vehicles etc, pre warning them where it is a requirement,  but you should ALWAYS ASSUME that you need to register a vehicle on private property,  regardless of the reason for the visit, until proven otherwise,  but especially when charging EV's, registration and time limits apply at many sites

recordplayer

Greatly appreciate the feedback. Re-reading your advice and some of the other advice on here, the RK is actually the Limited Company, so I can see what you're saying, the driver was using the vehicle belonging to the RK so was, in the eyes of the law, a hirer.

Appreciate your clarification

Gr1pr

No problem,  so you know what do,  if YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS are on that pcn   ?  ( meaning that it's not a copy of the NTK PCN letter sent to the company,  with their details on it   ?  )

As long as your name is on the pcn charge,  as a hirer,  especially if no copy of the company contract was included,  a hirer appeal should suffice 

But plan A is a better option,  even if you have to complain about it to the Holiday inn head office 

Coupon-mad

Try PLAN A (complaint to Holiday Inn) first. If that fails, call yourself the 'hirer/lessee' when appealing. Not I or me!

If you have to appeal, then POPLA is second stage.

If you look at recent POPLA DECISIONS (top of this forum in a dedicated sticky thread) you will see that this exact 'no signs at the charging bays' argument won at POPLA last month, at a different site:

There were no notices on the chargers, at the entrance or in the sight line of the driver. I will be returning on foot to photograph the site and will post said photographs here 

No agreed t&cs or contract with ParkingEye is visible or applicable in those EV charging bays then.

recordplayer

Gr1pr said:

No problem,  so you know what do,  if YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS are on that pcn   ?  ( meaning that it's not a copy of the NTK PCN letter sent to the company,  with their details on it   ?  )

As long as your name is on the pcn charge,  as a hirer,  especially if no copy of the company contract was included,  a hirer appeal should suffice 

But plan A is a better option,  even if you have to complain about it to the Holiday inn head office 

Thank you so much for the advice, most greatly appreciated.

I will keep you appraised of the status of the appeal to both the Holiday Inn, and, if unsuccessful, to POPLA.

recordplayer

Coupon-mad said:

Try PLAN A (complaint to Holiday Inn) first. If that fails, call yourself the 'hirer/lessee' when appealing. Not I or me!

If you have to appeal, then POPLA is second stage.

If you look at recent POPLA DECISIONS (top of this forum in a dedicated sticky thread) you will see that this exact 'no signs at the charging bays' argument won at POPLA last month, at a different site:

There were no notices on the chargers, at the entrance or in the sight line of the driver. I will be returning on foot to photograph the site and will post said photographs here 

No agreed t&cs or contract with ParkingEye is visible or applicable in those EV charging bays then.

Thank you so much for the advice, most greatly appreciated. I will keep you appraised of the progress, and post photographs from the site as soon as I have them.

There were definitely no signs on the charging bays. The chargers were a new type, and as a self confessed geek, I was all over these new Tesla chargers, even down to spotting the small LED displays on the back giving charges to owners for the power used. If there had been signage on, or near, the chargers, I would have noticed.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond

Gr1pr

So was anything recorded in the T####  app that tells you what is available and where etc  ?

It certainly was missing at a case we had not long ago at another hotel location,  check out that saga because we don't get many queries involving a T####  try the search box and within say 4 or 5 years as a timeframe 

Here is one from 2020 at Campanile, via Parking Eye 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6143229/advice-requested-is-it-worth-fighting-this-pcn-further?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=tesla+pcn+hotel

And Scotch Corner etc

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80850539#Comment_80850539?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=tesla+pcn+hotel

A CEL one below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6539752/tesla-lease-car-parking-violation-fee-60-10-hire-fee/p1

recordplayer

That is the interesting thing. My car has the free charging for life, it is that old, so I don't need the mobile Tesla app to charge, I do everything through the in car screen. The in car software does not display any warnings about parking charges.

The circumstances where the on board systems in a Model 3 or Model Y might give a warning are not applicable to the systems in a Model S or Model X, which use different systems, and many of those models do not require payment as they were sold with free charging for life packages. Also, where warning might appear in the Tesla app, the app is not required on cars with free charging, you just plug in and the car starts charging with no further interaction.

In terms of recording when and where the charging took place, as there's no charges, there's no record, other than than in the sat nav showing I set that charger as a destination on the day in question, but that doesn't record arrival and departure times.

Those cases you linked to are interesting and applicable here, and show the criticality of the advice you give in the newbies sticky.

Thank you for your support and assistance with this case

Gr1pr

Which clearly shows that warning signs need to be on each and every charger bay to warn drivers  ( sometimes the locations are closed,  like a hotel for example   ) on how and where to authorise the vehicle to be there whilst charging,  a requirement in the Code of Practice too,  signage forms any offered contract,  not the apps etc

I would suggest that it's hard to find any EV charger point that doesn't involve authorising the vehicle,  or has time limits, or both,  due to the sheer number of pcns we see on here for overstays or charging out of hours etc

Coupon-mad

Gr1pr said:

I would suggest that it's hard to find any EV charger point that doesn't involve authorising the vehicle,  or has time limits, or both, due to the sheer number of pcns we see on here for overstays or charging out of hours etc

I'd also say it is nigh on impossible to find an EV charging bay on private land where the full parking t&cs are readable from the EV bay.

Which clearly shows that warning signs need to be on each and every charger bay to warn drivers  ( sometimes the locations are closed,  like a hotel for example   ) on how and where to authorise the vehicle to be there whilst charging,  a requirement in the Code of Practice too,  signage forms any offered contract,  not the apps etc.

Totally agree but right now you literally never see this. T&cs signs are also conspicuous by their absence in disabled bay areas and parent & child bays. Retail parks are noticeable for this negligent or deliberate omission.

Almost as if PPCs want to set up EV owners, disabled people and people with babies/kids up for a fall, by letting them think the 'invitation to treat' for certain motorists to use these marked bays - and secure in the knowledge they fit the type of motorist the bay is for - is all they need to know.

Scam. Innit.