Seller claims telephone order was not distance selling

Dogsareace1

Credit card deposit, the bank have suggested a section 75 as have CAB. If I tried that and was unsuccessful are there potential financial repercussions the seller can impose?

Okell

Dogsareace1 said:

Thank you for your interest, I am reluctant to share details because I have the usual statement at the bottom of the email saying it is intended for me only. The organised distance sale or service-provision scheme is being quoted. It is a dealer not an individual, I’ve been careful to disclose accurate details to the C.A.B. and cross questioned them. They seem confident that I was covered. I’m now communicating directly with the M.D. at the dealership and he’s tying me up in knots.

If you won't tell us who the dealer is, does it look like they are geared up to do sales over the 'phone, or does it look like a one-off as you weren't local.

Again, what is the name of the case they've quoted?

eskbanker

Dogsareace1 said:

Credit card deposit, the bank have suggested a section 75 as have CAB. If I tried that and was unsuccessful are there potential financial repercussions the seller can impose?

No, if a s75 claim succeeded, it's the bank that picks up the tab, so the merchant is effectively none the wiser.  Did either the bank or CAB suggest why they thought s75 could be applicable here?

Edit: sorry, misread the question, but the answer's much the same - if s75 was tried and failed, it doesn't really affect the merchant one way or the other, as it's solely a claim against the bank.

Dogsareace1

I do know the seller attends trade shows and takes orders at the shows does that fall under the distance selling umbrella? 

I suspect it’s quite normal to take deposits over the phone, they took mine very easily 

eskbanker

Dogsareace1 said:

I do know the seller attends trade shows and takes orders at the shows does that fall under the distance selling umbrella? 

I suspect it’s quite normal to take deposits over the phone, they took mine very easily 

There are three categories, namely distance, off-premises and on-premises, and it may be worth your while reading through the definitions:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/5

Okell

Dogsareace1 said:

I do know the seller attends trade shows and takes orders at the shows does that fall under the distance selling umbrella? 

I suspect it’s quite normal to take deposits over the phone, they took mine very easily 

I think trade shows would be covered as an "off-premises contract", but that isn't a distance contract and that isn't how you bought it, is it?

He may have taken your deposit over the phone, but did you actually conclude the contract over the 'phone?

Aylesbury_Duck

I asked a while back about the nature of your prior visit to view a motorhome.  Given that it would be impractical for a dealer to stock every variant of each model, I assume they might have one model from each range.  Is that the case?  What model(s) did you view and what have you committed to purchase?  I think it's very relevant to whether or not this was a distant sale.

Dogsareace1

I visited the dealership as they advertised they had what I wanted to view in stock, the salesmen took me to an empty space in show room. Went away and came back telling me it’s sold but we have another one about to be delivered. 

I left the dealership with two prices I scribbled on a piece of paper, a potential price my px might be worth and the difference to pay if I wanted the motorhome based on the estimate of my px. This was not a quote I was told when you are ready to place an order we will have a proper discussion about it. I made the notes based on a chat about if I decided to consider buying it. I told them I was also looking at another identical motorhome at a different dealer.

The seller had very little detail on the vehicle that was coming in to stock. I enquired about interior trim he said the same as the others in the showroom that why I looked at it.

i am told today in writing the motorhome was ordered specifically for me by the MD of the dealership.

I have an email dated around 4 days before I placed the order stating it should have been delivered the week before but it still wasn’t finished at the factory. 

So not ordered specifically for me?

I suspect lots of lies are being told

Okell

The difficulty you will have is that to qualify as a distance contract the sale has to be made exclusively using only one or more means of distance communication.

By visiting the premises you have complicated matters - perhaps not irretrievably but you have made it more difficult for yourself.

When did you visit their premises and when did you phone them?  What was the purpose of the call?  Had you already decided to buy it?

There's also the issue that the dealer will argue that you only rang up to confirm that you wanted to buy and that they had no organised system or scheme of distance selling.

I don't think it matters if they ordered it specifically for you or not.

Can you tell us what the name of the case is that the dealer has cited?

Okell

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head -  has previously posted this EU guidance which might be helpful

"EU guidance stipulates the following:  

 Recital 20 provides further explanations of this concept, including examples of means of distance communication: ‘The definition of distance contract should cover all cases where a contract is concluded between the trader and the consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication ( such as mail order, internet, telephone or fax ) up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded. That definition should also cover situations where the consumer visits the business premises merely for the purpose of gathering information about the goods or services and subsequently negotiates and concludes the contract at a distance. By contrast, a contract which is negotiated at the business premises of the trader and finally concluded by means of distance communication should not be considered a distance contract. Neither should a contract initiated by means of distance communication, but finally concluded at the business premises of the trader be considered a distance contract. Similarly, the concept of distance contract should not include reservations made by a consumer through a means of distance communications to request the provision of a service from a professional, such as in the case of a consumer phoning to request an appointment with a hairdresser. […]’."

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