Probate application - "executors named in will"

Reclining_Chair

On the probate online application, it asks for "Executors named in the will".

My mother is the executor and my brother and I are named as substitute executors in case my mother is unable or unwilling or deceased. My mother is willing and I'm completing the application on her behalf.

Do I have to list my brother and I as executors or is the form just for "primary executors".

I've tried calling the helpline but haven't been able to get through and they shut at 1pm!!!

bobster2

The PA1P form seems pretty clear. The executor who is applying for probate - and who will be the sole executor is the "First Applicant" and the only applicant in this case. The applicant is who will be granted probate.

Then under question 3.6 you have to list the other executors named in the will who are not making the application - giving the reasons they are not applying...

A – They died before the person who has died.
B – They died after the person who has died (Please include the date they died by their name).
C – Power reserved: they have chosen not to apply, but reserve the right to do so later.
D – Renunciation: they have chosen not to apply, and give up all rights to apply. (Before you send off your application please read NOTE REASON D)
E – Power of attorney: they have appointed or wish to appoint another person to act as their attorney to take a Grant of Representation on their behalf (You will also need to complete Section 5 of this application). (Before you send off your application please read NOTE REASON E)
F – They lack capacity to act as executor.

Reclining_Chair

Thanks very much bobster2.

In that case, am I correct in thinking that, given my mother is the sole executor and my brother and I are substitues then I just exclude my brother and me altogether?

Just double checking. Thanks again.

Reclining_Chair

A quick update. Section 3.6 does not appear on the online application if you click the option that there are no other executors.

I'm going to try calling the Probate helpline again in the morning but I'm fairly sure this means that subsitute executors are completely excluded.

Beware A.I. because it is telling me to include substitute executors. I've tried askkng it multiple times with varying questions. I asked it to provide proof and the links it supplied did not backup it's own conclusion in my opinion. None of them were definitive.

bobster2

Reclining_Chair said:

Thanks very much bobster2.

In that case, am I correct in thinking that, given my mother is the sole executor and my brother and I are substitues then I just exclude my brother and me altogether?

Just double checking. Thanks again.

No - you cannot just exclude them. 

The numbering of items may be different but on the online form there will be a way to indicate who is the applicant - and also separately to list the executors who are not applying.

You must include the executors who are not applying somewhere on the form - and explain why they are not applying. There will be a box for this.

bobster2

I've just looked at the online form. It is really simple.

At the start it asks...

How many past and present executors are named on the will and any updates (‘codicils’)? 

You must put the total number named on the will. And give their details.

The applicant gives their details next - i.e. the executor who is going to administer the estate

Then there is a question..

Will any of the other executors be dealing with the estate?

You can say no. Then for each of the other executors named on the will the form will ask...

Why isn’t XXXXX applying for probate?

And you tick the appropriate box for each executor who is not applying.

Reclining_Chair

Thanks very much for looking into this bobster, I appreciate your help.

My brother and I are substitute executors. I think the form is for primary executors, eg. If in the will it said "I make my executors Mr X, Mrs Y and Mr Z"

Where as our will says "Mrs Y is executor but if she is unable or unwilling then I make Mr X and Mr Z executors".

I'll just hang on the phone for god knows how long tomorrow until I get througb to the probate helpline.

Thanks again.

poppystar

My understanding is that the substitute executors do not get involved or effectively even get considered to be an executor if the conditions for the substitution given in the Will have not been met. So as mother is willing, able and alive to execute the Will then the Probate application should be in her name only.

There are other things in a Will that would be ignored if the conditions aren’t met such as beneficiaries who only inherit if another has bequest has failed eg if someone has died. You need these clauses in the Will to deal with the what if situations but they are ignored if the conditions are not met. 

Let us know what the Probate people conclude when you speak to them.

bobster2

Reclining_Chair said:

Thanks very much for looking into this bobster, I appreciate your help.

My brother and I are substitute executors. I think the form is for primary executors, eg. If in the will it said "I make my executors Mr X, Mrs Y and Mr Z"

Where as our will says "Mrs Y is executor but if she is unable or unwilling then I make Mr X and Mr Z executors".

I'll just hang on the phone for god knows how long tomorrow until I get througb to the probate helpline.

Thanks again.

OK - this may make things different.