Listed building and windows

strawb_shortcake

Sorry I'll have loads of questions the coming weeks.

Viewed a grade 2 listed house today, lovely inside, but I was pleased with myself for noticing that it was the only house in the terrace with double glazing which rang alarm bells.

We asked the estate agent, who said I'm sure they are fine... though this was after saying they aren't plastic they're proper windows 😳

We have searched for a FENSA certificate, there isn't one. Historic England refer to plain glazed sashes/bars. 

I know the house was previously marked as sold, but sale fell through late, EA previously told us that it was a financial issue we assumed buyer couldn't afford.

This is one to walk away from right? 

We thought it was a good price, but we would be making sacrifices to live there anyway. 

Brie

Tell the EA that you need proof that the windows are ok, not just their vague comment of "they're fine".  

Is it possible to insist on indemnity insurance for this??

GrubbyGirl_2

Can't you ring the council and ask if they got planning permission?

Section62

Brie said:

Tell the EA that you need proof that the windows are ok, not just their vague comment of "they're fine".  

Is it possible to insist on indemnity insurance for this??

There's no time limit on LB enforcement, and quite likely the OP could need LB consent for work they might do during their ownership, so accepting an indemnity policy which requires no contact with the planners/conservation officer could be problematic down the line.

Also quite a big risk one of the neighbours says to planning "but the people at .... have been allowed to have double glazing, why can't we?" which might lead to the OP getting a letter dropping through the door.

gm0

Probably - but not necessarily for the reason you have spotted

Listed building is very specific. As to what aspect of it is listed.  So getting and reading that listing to see what it covers - is priority one if buying any such.

Historic crimes against the listing DO fall upon the current owner.  So unlike an old BR change with no papers.  This doesn't lose its ability to challenge for restoration i.e. put it back.  Or restrictions on approach/materials/design etc.

Some listing officers are totally awful. Some are OK. Postcode lottery.  

Negotiating change is ALWAYS a hassle.  As it is an extra set of mouths to feed in planning works.

Particularly where a building has evolved and the question of which century/period to emulate vs being obviously new and different is a subjective judgement informed by criteria and context. So you can end up looping - "propose x (with quote), they delay (while quote expires), then told no to x.  Propose y - rinse and repeat.  Told no.  Massive waste of everyone's time. It's a "you propose we deny kind of process" 

They often won't say what they will accept in many cases.  As I say - vary in unreasonableness.  

Section62

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

Can't you ring the council and ask if they got planning permission?

TBH in the OP's situation I would probably do this - but aware it would probably rule out getting an indemnity policy.  If the conservation officer can confirm (preferably in writing) that the windows are OK then there's nothing to worry about.

If the CO says they know nothing about the windows then the OP can take a chance or walk away.

If the EA/vendor got upset that the CO has been contacted then I'd politely point out to them the EA said the windows were 'fine', so didn't know the contact might be problematic.

youth_leader

I sold my listed grade 2 railway station because I was not given permission to have any form of secondary glazing, and the house was absolutely freezing in the winter. 

It is possible the current owners have done this without permission and if anyone reports it, they would have to be stripped back to their original single glazed state.  We have a lot of listed grade 2 buildings in this village and a local woman replaced her windows at the back of her property and was reported, they had to be removed. 

My new owner has applied for various listed permissions and his architect has referred to 'unsuitable works' of previous owners several times in his report - wasn't us m'lord! 

BungalowBel

Listed Building = Moneypit.

I personally would not consider it.

user1977

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

Can't you ring the council and ask if they got planning permission?

Or safer, check the council's planning portal online. Would be daft to rule it out without even knowing what consents have (or haven't) been granted.

strawb_shortcake

Thanks all, I was going to try and search the planning portal, my plan was to find the FENSA certificate to give me a time range to search under. 

I'd like to get to the bottom of it, just to work out if my hunch is correct.

This house was a bit of a wild card for us, but think windows and listed status aside there are too many compromises to be made.

I shall report back if I find anything definitive 

strawb_shortcake

Well that was quicker than I thought, 

Going back to 2007, there is not a request for any work to be done to the house I viewed. 

There were applications relating to other houses in the terrace for windows. The one I looked at had approved with restrictions - windows could be painted and but had to be done in a manner to keep them in line with historical and architectural keeping - or words to that effect. 

The windows were definitely newer than 2007. 

Incidentally, the application I clicked on happened to be a lady I know from work, so may drop her an email on this.