New watch - UK online store sent me second hand one & no receipt

MyRealNameToo

YorkshireJames said:

MyRealNameToo said:

So the dispute has been dealt with as a chargeback rather than S75, which is normal practice. This will probably be rejected on the basis you still have the goods, depending on which chargeback code it was put through as. If it is then you should ask AmEx to consider it under S75 instead pointing out you've been unable to return the goods as the vendor refused to disclose where to send the goods. 

Thanks. Should I wait to see what Amex say or request they s75 it now?

I could send the goods to the Companies House registered address, but I want them to pay postage as this is all their issue.

It's unlikely they will consider under S75 whilst the chargeback is ongoing. 

They say they are a drop shipper so there is a reasonable chance of it having to go back to the fulfilment company rather than the merchant. In principle thats more their problem than yours but it just adds another headache to deal with. 

How much is postage -v- the value of the watch? Sometime you have to pick your battles

eskbanker

YorkshireJames said:

I didn't get an email receipt and when the watch arrived I charged it and tried to register the warranty and it said it has already been registered by someone else.

The watch must be secondhand hand, but there was no indication of that on the website and the price was similar other new prices.

Is there actually any physical indication that the watch isn't brand new?  An error message on a warranty registration site could have other explanations, such as someone transposing serial number digits when registering a different purchase, or something like that?

pinkshoes

YorkshireJames said:

Okay, so I disputed the payment with the credit card company. Something about that prompted retailer to reply to my email:

This is illegal

We have received notice of a fraudulent chargeback relating to your order (details below). Please note that the item in question remains in your possession, meaning you have both the goods and a refund. This constitutes unlawful conduct.

Garmin is responsible for replacing the item, and the correct process has not been followed. Unless this chargeback is closed immediately, we will have no choice but to escalate the matter and issue proceedings in the Small Claims Court. Please also be aware that all associated legal and recovery fees will be added to your liability.

We urge you to resolve this matter promptly to avoid further action.

If this is not closed we will have to open a claim in the courts and will charge legal feees.

---

What do I do next?

They still haven't told me how to return it or sent me a return label. Should I follow the retailers advice and complain to Garmin and ask for a replacement?

Thanks for all your help.

So you reply to the email stating that the garmin watch you purchased from them had already been registered by someone else and not new, you have no contract with Garmin, and you are more than happy to return the watch as you have previously requested but they have failed to send you pre paid return postage so you can return it.

Say that as soon as you've received the prepaid return label, you will happily send it back to them and that this is not fraudulent at all, just a failure on their behalf to adhere to The 2015 Consumer Rights Act and sort out as a return as already requested.

born_again

YorkshireJames said:

I'm probably going to:
1. Write to the retailer asking for them to send me a prepaid postage label.
2. Contact Garmin, as the retailer has asked, and ask Garmin for a replacement.

Anything else I should do at this point?

Garmin have nothing to do with this.

Your contract is with the retailer.

YorkshireJames

Okay, I took your advice, my email to them:

Dear Oxygen Lifestyle Team,

Thank you for your recent email.

I am writing in response to reiterate my concern regarding the Garmin Instinct 2S watch I purchased from you. Upon receipt, I discovered that the device had already been registered by someone else, indicating that it is not new as advertised.

As previously stated, I am more than happy to return the item. However, despite my earlier request, I have yet to receive the prepaid return postage label necessary to send the product back to you.

Please note that I am simply requesting that this return be handled in accordance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015, under which I am entitled to return goods that are not as described. There is absolutely no fraudulent intent here—just an expectation that the return process be carried out properly, which unfortunately has not happened so far.

As soon as I receive the prepaid return label, I will promptly send the watch back to you.

I appreciate your attention to this matter and look forward to your swift response.

Kind regards,

-‐-------

Their response:

We do not accept your claim. The Garmin Instinct 2S supplied to you was sold as new. We have confirmed that the product has not been previously registered, and any registration, support, or warranty queries are handled exclusively by Garmin under their manufacturer’s warranty.

You remain in possession of both the goods and the refund obtained through a chargeback. This means you currently have the watch without paying for it, which is unlawful. Unless this chargeback is reversed and closed within 48 hours, we will escalate the matter and initiate legal proceedings to recover the goods and all associated costs.

Please resolve this matter immediately to avoid further action.

Kind regards,
Oxygen Lifestyle

noitsnotme

Ask them for proof of this... "We have confirmed that the product has not been previously registered"

Have you spoken to Garmin yourself about registering the warranty?  What did they say?

MeteredOut

Other than Garmin saying it was already registered, did it otherwise look/seem new?i e. the protective foil on the watch face etc?

Does it being pre-registered impact any warranty period you have, or any other consequential impact to its use? If so, use that in your response.

pinkshoes

YorkshireJames said:

Okay, I took your advice, my email to them:

Dear Oxygen Lifestyle Team,

Thank you for your recent email.

I am writing in response to reiterate my concern regarding the Garmin Instinct 2S watch I purchased from you. Upon receipt, I discovered that the device had already been registered by someone else, indicating that it is not new as advertised.

As previously stated, I am more than happy to return the item. However, despite my earlier request, I have yet to receive the prepaid return postage label necessary to send the product back to you.

Please note that I am simply requesting that this return be handled in accordance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015, under which I am entitled to return goods that are not as described. There is absolutely no fraudulent intent here—just an expectation that the return process be carried out properly, which unfortunately has not happened so far.

As soon as I receive the prepaid return label, I will promptly send the watch back to you.

I appreciate your attention to this matter and look forward to your swift response.

Kind regards,

-‐-------

Their response:

We do not accept your claim. The Garmin Instinct 2S supplied to you was sold as new. We have confirmed that the product has not been previously registered, and any registration, support, or warranty queries are handled exclusively by Garmin under their manufacturer’s warranty.

You remain in possession of both the goods and the refund obtained through a chargeback. This means you currently have the watch without paying for it, which is unlawful. Unless this chargeback is reversed and closed within 48 hours, we will escalate the matter and initiate legal proceedings to recover the goods and all associated costs.

Please resolve this matter immediately to avoid further action.

Kind regards,
Oxygen Lifestyle

I'd reply with a screenshot of the warranty showing it has already been registered as your proof, and state again could they please send a pre-paid label so you can return it, and that the goods only remain in your possession as they have failed to provide a returns label. 

The legal talk is just to bully you into closing the chargeback. You could always say that having taken legal advice, you are within your right to request a refund under the 2015 Consumer Rights Act, so are happy for them to take the matter to court.

As an alternative, you could pay to send the watch back tracked via Royal Mail (get them to give the return address) as legally you ALSO have the right to return the watch under distance selling regulations, albeit the onus to pay the return postage *might* be up to you to pay. (I'm not sure of the rules - I think if they specify in their own T&Cs that you pay return postage for returns, then you will have to, but if not they pay. Someone can possibly clarify that).

Grumpy_chap

pinkshoes said:

The legal talk is just to bully you into closing the chargeback. 

Which I find a bit odd as the retailer could have easily contested / reversed the chargeback but has not done so.

MyRealNameToo

Grumpy_chap said:

pinkshoes said:

The legal talk is just to bully you into closing the chargeback. 

Which I find a bit odd as the retailer could have easily contested / reversed the chargeback but has not done so.

Haven't been on the old business forums I used to be a member of since they introduced charges and started applying them to long standing members as well as newbies. However, at the time the general consensus amongst small business owners was that its a rigged process thats heavily biased towards the customer and you're better off not wasting time on defending the chargeback and go straight to a letter before action and then court. 

Whilst I dont spend time with those guys anymore to see if the opinion has changed there has been a lot of stuff circulating on LinkedIn etc calling chargebacks "friendly fraud" and advising business on how to cut their loses from chargebacks... so at least some are still pushing back on them.