Power of Attorney mother spending lots of cash

Cressida100

GDB2222 said:

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn’t go, and doesn’t suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we’ve no money for butter.
I shall sit down on the pavement when I’m tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick the flowers in other people’s gardens
And learn to spit.

You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go
Or only bread and pickle for a week
And hoard pens and pencils and beermats and things in boxes.

But now we must have clothes that keep us dry
And pay our rent and not swear in the street
And set a good example for the children.
We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.

But maybe I ought to practise a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.

I have always loved this poem and had it on my office wall for years. It made me smile again this morning

Cressida100

KxMx said:

I really appreciate your kindness 🙂

Several years ago a few of us tried to tell Mum how dangerous inactivity in her position was, unfortunately she didn't want to know, while the current sad state of affairs was predictable I didn't ever think it would be quite so bad, impact my own health so much nor happen so soon - she's 68 and I'm biding my time to raise the subject of a nursing home, which she will be unable to self fund. 

So sorry to read about your mum. We went through similar in our family so you have my deepest sympathy. Please take care of yourself as well. 

EnPointe

Scotbot said:

KxMx said:

If your mother is deemed to have capacity, and does not wish you to get involved in her finances at this point, then having POA is a moot point because it is not active and you have no grounds to activate it on.

As a POA holder at this time you have no authority and no responsibility.

Just because you disagree with how she spends her money, doesn't mean you have any grounds to force any changes. 

She does wish me to get involved with her finances and has authorised her bank to allow me to act on her behalf. 

Are there   meaningful questions over her mental capacity ? 

is there any actual evidence that she is being coerced  or financially explouited by anoyone other than yourself ( as unfortunately  from an external viewpoint   your concern **could** be seen to  be prioritising  preserving capital  as an inheritance ?  )


1. the Mental Capacity Act presumes Capacity 

2. the absence of valid concerns over Mental capacity , the MCA  is quite clear that people  can make 'unwise' choices 

3. if  what you state is correct with regard to her financial circumstances this 94  year old  has at  least 10 years  worth of  savings to support  spending in excess of  income 


using the ONS  figures

(https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07) 

 which  are population wide. she has a 40 something percent chance of surviving the next 3 years, a 25 % chance of  surviing the next 5 years and a 10% chance of making it to 101 years old and perhpasa 5 % chance of making it to 104  ...  these figures do not  reference the activity levels of  said  individuals, nor are  they adjusted for  comrbidity or the impact of signifcant  health  insults  ( such as  a fall  resulting in a Hip fracture   being a preterminal event for perhaps as many a 1 in 3  of the elderly ) 

EnPointe

Scotbot said:

Thanks for the replies, I  accept it's her money and her choice how to spend it.

Going forward if I  feel she is losing capacity does anyone know how I go about getting that confirmed? Who do I contact,  is it social services? I think it unlikely she would agree to a medical assessment.  

Ultimately Capacity determination often does fall to Health Professionals, although Social Workers  are involved  - as seen  by the number of AMHPs who are 'still' Social Workers despite  the  role being open to Registered Nurses and Other relevant Health Professionals for a good number of years and AMHP services   being  run through  Health  rather  than Social care  as the AMHP role is tied to S2 and S3 MHA ) 

badmemory

I totally sympathise with your feelings but as someone said she is getting out & still wants to be doing.  Which is great.  The tipping taxis & hairdressing (my mother did the same in her later years) is all about keeping going & enjoying.  I have a friend who in their 50s used to pay a taxi driver to buy some of her shopping so they are used to it.  It is difficult when you are used to being very sensible with money to accept that some need to spend like this when you are used to budgeting etc.  I think you should forget the extra "spends" & keep a serious watch for the out of the ordinary.  We were fortunate as my mother didn't have a POA in place at the time but because I hadn't been as, you shouldn't & why are you etc as my sister had, she told me when she thought she had messed up.  Thankfully it was something I could sort & get her money back, never told sis.  But if I had been critical like sis then Mum would have lost just over £1k & been upset about it.

It can be quite scary when you are much older.  I am now 79 (extra 25p on my state pension next year how will I cope) & everyone basically of my generation here has gone.  My friend that I spoke to the other day didn't remember the very bad reaction to the first 2 covid jabs they had & the other is only 60 & they want them to go in a care home.

Sorry for the screed.

Cobbler_tone

I don't have (and wouldn't even broach the subject) of POA with my elderly parents. I have no idea how much money they have, nor what they spend. I suspect they live well within their means and continue to generate wealth. They like a nice chat with a scammer on the landline but would never hand any details over. My dad still draws his state pension in cash and they won't have any direct debits. 
They will be the sort who leave an absolute financial mess to unpick, with no information readily available. I mentioned once that it was a bit selfish as I'd have to deal with it, then you realise how an elderly person wrestles with their mortality so it's not the best topic. So I'll face that at the time and happy they are around.
I will definitely approach things differently with my children but it is 'that' generation.
In the meantime, I am confident they have their faculties and they live a simple life.

elsien

What do you need to consider is if there’s no power-of-attorney and they become unwell and lose  capacity have to apply to the court protection for a deputyship to help manage their money for them, and that was taking upwards of 18 months at one point. 

So I would certainly be broaching the subject of how things would work if they lose their faculties. 

Smudgeismydog

It’s also relatively inexpensive to set up an LPA, but quite costly to go the Court of Protection route

twopenny

I can see why you are concerned and of course you need to keep an eye out for her.
But I live among retirement bungalows and see most stuck in front of the telly all day with the highlight of the bin men and the cleaner.
They are alone all day because friends and spouces have gone.

I think it's wonderful that your mother has created a life for herself which she is managing and getting out and about.
Perhaps she had run out of sweets. Her only option is to be sad or do something about it.
I'm much younger and have found myself driving to the shops much to often because I've forgotten something, it was out of stock etc.

There are some kind taxi drivers out there. I can get a hospital appt 5 times earlier but it's a hundred mile round trip.
One said they would drive me for a set fee and wait the 3hrs of tests. 
Another offered a set price for any time day or night, to get to the airport so I could have a holiday .
They are out there.

Her tipping is generous. But perhaps she likes helping younger people with a bit of a treat. I know a lot of elderly people do.
You will find as you get older there's a turning point between saving money and realising you have limited time to spend it.
It seems to me that she's making every day count 🙂