NIP wrong location

Mildly_Miffed

Arunmor said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Because if you take this to court, I *really* don't think you're going to win.

Why not? 

Because the photos they've given you are purely to help you decide if it really was your vehicle.

They will have more than that, almost certainly video, which they will produce during the disclosure before the court hearing.

Were you driving that car at that time? Yes.
Was that car exceeding the speed limit at that time? Yes.
A minor procedural error in failing to change the recorded location prior to setting up the camera at the new location does not invalidate all the evidence gathered.

But, hey, you go for it.
£90ish and a couple of hours; three points and £100; or hit that roulette wheel...

Unless - are you on nine points and facing a totting up ban, so the choice is not yours?

HillStreetBlues

x44 said:

I'd guess that the camera van/tripod operator forgot to update the location of where it was between moves.

So given the considerable distance between them I'd say you have a good chance of the Police suddenly deciding to cancel them all en-mass.

Indeed it is essential to wait until there is no time for the police to re-issue the NIP within the 14 day period after the offense with the correct details on it.

I'd be replying along the lines of while I was driving in that car at that time I/the car was not at the location specified in the NIP.

I agree, if the location is in the totally wrong place then it's not a trivial error

ontheroad1970

Mildly_Miffed said:

Arunmor said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Because if you take this to court, I *really* don't think you're going to win.

Why not? 

Because the photos they've given you are purely to help you decide if it really was your vehicle.

They will have more than that, almost certainly video, which they will produce during the disclosure before the court hearing.

Were you driving that car at that time? Yes.
Was that car exceeding the speed limit at that time? Yes.
A minor procedural error in failing to change the recorded location prior to setting up the camera at the new location does not invalidate all the evidence gathered.

But, hey, you go for it.
£90ish and a couple of hours; three points and £100; or hit that roulette wheel...

Unless - are you on nine points and facing a totting up ban, so the choice is not yours?

Op still has timer to change his mind if the police do decide to send a new NIP.  However if the OP is sensible this will be outside the 14 days and inside the 28 days and replies saying that he was in his car 2 miles+ away at that time, and they will just quietly drop it.  

Car_54

Arunmor said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Because if you take this to court, I *really* don't think you're going to win.

Why not? 

It is not just a typo the address is completely wrong, it is incumbent on the authorities to get these things right the first time.  

Really? Which law says that?

If the OP is the RK, then they've missed the 14-day deadline. If however he isn't, it doesn't apply, and they can try again. And again.

TooManyPoints

It is not “de minimus”.

For a NIP to meet the requirements of s1 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act I must specify “…the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed”

 If it doesn’t do that or it is incorrect then it does not meet the requirements. 

“Because the photos they've given you are purely to help you decide if it really was your vehicle.”

 The photographs are irrelevant. There is no requirement to provide them. It is the NIP that is required by the RTOA.

“If the OP is the RK, then they've missed the 14-day deadline. If however he isn't, it doesn't apply, and they can try again. And again.”

 It doesn’t matter who is the RK. If it is not the recipient of this NIP, the first one (the only one required by law) will also be wrong and the same requirement applies. 

Wait until after 14 days and inform the police – in writing -that your vehicle was not at the location specified at the time mentioned. See what they do. 

Were you ever at the location specified on that day, perhaps an hour earlier or later?

Okell

TooManyPoints said:

... Wait until after 14 days and inform the police – in writing -that your vehicle was not at the location specified at the time mentioned. See what they do...

As I said in a previous post, that seems the obvious and correct advice to me.

I'm surprised @Mildly_Miffed seems to be advising the OP to nominate himself and then plead guilty.

And as the alleged offence is dated 31 July I think it's a pretty safe bet that the OP is the RK and that it is a first NIP that must be served within 14 days.

(The OP is perhaps lucky that an amended NIP hasn't been served as it sounds as if he's already queried the NIP with the police and alerted them to the error, instead of just responding after 14 days)

Alan6996

Update 

I am the RK and only driver of this vehicle 

phoned police and they said there is a video but I can’t not see it.

i have sent evidence stating I was 4 miles away and have to wait till next Thursday ( 10 working days)

the first 14 days have elapsed already 

I will update , hopefully can help someone else 

jimjames

Is it possible that you were at the other location at any point and hadn't seen the speed trap? Or could it be cloned plates?

Alan6996

jimjames said:

Is it possible that you were at the other location at any point and hadn't seen the speed trap? Or could it be cloned plates?

I was definitely not at the location stated on the NIP,  the Taxi app that I use shows me on a job 3.5 miles away

The pictures clearly showed my vehicle so there are no clone plates involved

as toomanypoints stated I’ve submitted evidence I was somewhere else. Let’s see what they do. I have until next Thursday for them to email me back regarding the evidence I submitted.

ideally, the Police may cancel it as it’s an error on their behalf, 

if they don’t then I have to decide whether to go to court and played not guilty which I’m not looking forward to

TooManyPoints

Remember that if you plead Not Guilty in court, your defence must be based on the fact that no NIP was served which met the requirements of the RTOA.

If you simply plead not guilty on the basis that the offence took place at location B, rather than location A, you are likely to be convicted. When you enter your NG plea you will be asked to provide the basis on which that plea is entered. If you say it is because the location is wrong, the prosecution will ask the court to amend the charge and they will almost certainly be given permission to do so.

Your defence must be that no prosecution can succeed because a NIP satisfying the requirements of s1 of the RTOA was not served. The prosecution cannot put that right once 14 days from the offence date have elapsed.