Unable to find lodgers, is this a dead period?

pieroabcd

ReadySteadyPop said:

Would you consider a student?

yes,  but no parties.

MyRealNameToo

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

saajan_12 said:

Fully agree with the OP's view on couples, its a very different dynamic to share the lounge with one other when you're both quiet or talking to eachother vs sharing with two people talking and you're on the edge. Also often less frequency of them sleeping elsewhere or be out on dates etc.
Back when I was doing this, I had a significant price difference if letting to a couple, as its the same bedroom usage but higher intrusion on the living room and slightly more on utilities. 

That assumes the lounge is to be used by the lodger(s) and somewhat depends on the motivation for renting out a room. 

The two places the Mrs was a lodger in before we met she didnt have access to the lounge and it was clearly families trying to get some money in rather than someone looking for a new friend. She was effectively a ghost in the house, unless she left a teaspoon or mug in the sink at which point they reminded her of the rules. 

If two lodgers are dating where do you expect them to be spending the night if neither allow overnight guests? As to single people being out more than couples that very much depends on the people involved. I know single people who are either at work, in the supermarket or at home whereas we will frequently be out in the evenings and barely at home at weekends other than to sleep. 

There will be more of that now I would think, but rents in London are down about 3% this year, many people will prefer to scrape their way into a flat rather than be told to wash their tea-spoons by a stranger in my opinion.

They may be down from last year but rents went even more silly a few years ago so it feels to me to be a small correction than anything else. 

I dont know about wider London but a quick check on RightMove within 1/2 a mile of us puts the cheapest studio/one bed at £1,600 exc bills PCM whereas a room on SpareRoom start from £645, though a few look like crack dens or the bed is against the walls on 3 sides, but plenty of decent/big rooms at £1,000 PCM inc bills. 

There is a big difference between having a room and having a whole property but £600 plus bills is also a big premium to just try and find 

The changes to visas and required salary levels to work here are going to put a dent in that in my opinion, look for things to shift over the winter and into next year.

We'll see, look at the basically identical flat but just the other side of the thames and it would be more like £2,000

We bought in late 2018 when we moved out our rent was £1,800 for a large two bed. 2 beds in that same building are currently advertised at £2,400-£2,600 and again across the river you're looking at £3,000

Property prices are all over the place at the moment, 2 beds at circa 100m2 in the building are being advertised between £500,000 and £700,000. views/outside space varies notably but that is a damned big spread. Our LL put our flat on the market for £650,000 and sold it for £525,000 18 months later. The building is share of freehold but is now of an age that big works are needed on windows and the roof. 

f that asset was bringing you a near 2k a month income why would you sell up and take that hit?

So they bought and lived in the property for a few years but as their kid grew they decided they wanted a house instead. For whatever reason they decided to keep the flat as a rental and rent a house further out in London.

He was a contractor in the banking sector, allegedly he started to struggle to get new contracts so he decided to go perm which significantly reduced his earnings. The flat had appreciated considerably so he extended his mortgage; obviously dont know by how much or what he did with the monies but it wasnt to buy another property for them to live in. 

Unfortunately his perm job with with Wonga so he was laid off with less than 2 years service so no redundancy. He was again struggling to find work and so put the flat on the market. 

The flat was never worth £650,000... the best examples at the time were going for £625,000 but they had a balcony. This flat had amazing views but no balcony and it had been a rental for a good number of years so needed work. At a minimum new kitchen but the heating in two rooms didnt work and it was an in floor system so a very expensive thing to fix. At best it was £575,000 but he refused offers in that region and then covid happened and people wanted outdoor space more than ever.

The other problem is that though its share of freehold the service charges were massive because its an early 80s building now needing a lot of work with the quote for scaffolding at the time being more than £1m. Service charge on ours was just under £12k, the penthouse was circa £30k. So whilst rent was £2k half that goes out the door on the service charge, another chunk will be on his mortgage and then he has to find the £2k or whatever for the rent on his house. 

@readysteadypop - so in short over extending themselves and being in a bit of a hole 

ReadySteadyPop

MyRealNameToo said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MyRealNameToo said:

saajan_12 said:

Fully agree with the OP's view on couples, its a very different dynamic to share the lounge with one other when you're both quiet or talking to eachother vs sharing with two people talking and you're on the edge. Also often less frequency of them sleeping elsewhere or be out on dates etc.
Back when I was doing this, I had a significant price difference if letting to a couple, as its the same bedroom usage but higher intrusion on the living room and slightly more on utilities. 

That assumes the lounge is to be used by the lodger(s) and somewhat depends on the motivation for renting out a room. 

The two places the Mrs was a lodger in before we met she didnt have access to the lounge and it was clearly families trying to get some money in rather than someone looking for a new friend. She was effectively a ghost in the house, unless she left a teaspoon or mug in the sink at which point they reminded her of the rules. 

If two lodgers are dating where do you expect them to be spending the night if neither allow overnight guests? As to single people being out more than couples that very much depends on the people involved. I know single people who are either at work, in the supermarket or at home whereas we will frequently be out in the evenings and barely at home at weekends other than to sleep. 

There will be more of that now I would think, but rents in London are down about 3% this year, many people will prefer to scrape their way into a flat rather than be told to wash their tea-spoons by a stranger in my opinion.

They may be down from last year but rents went even more silly a few years ago so it feels to me to be a small correction than anything else. 

I dont know about wider London but a quick check on RightMove within 1/2 a mile of us puts the cheapest studio/one bed at £1,600 exc bills PCM whereas a room on SpareRoom start from £645, though a few look like crack dens or the bed is against the walls on 3 sides, but plenty of decent/big rooms at £1,000 PCM inc bills. 

There is a big difference between having a room and having a whole property but £600 plus bills is also a big premium to just try and find 

The changes to visas and required salary levels to work here are going to put a dent in that in my opinion, look for things to shift over the winter and into next year.

We'll see, look at the basically identical flat but just the other side of the thames and it would be more like £2,000

We bought in late 2018 when we moved out our rent was £1,800 for a large two bed. 2 beds in that same building are currently advertised at £2,400-£2,600 and again across the river you're looking at £3,000

Property prices are all over the place at the moment, 2 beds at circa 100m2 in the building are being advertised between £500,000 and £700,000. views/outside space varies notably but that is a damned big spread. Our LL put our flat on the market for £650,000 and sold it for £525,000 18 months later. The building is share of freehold but is now of an age that big works are needed on windows and the roof. 

f that asset was bringing you a near 2k a month income why would you sell up and take that hit?

So they bought and lived in the property for a few years but as their kid grew they decided they wanted a house instead. For whatever reason they decided to keep the flat as a rental and rent a house further out in London.

He was a contractor in the banking sector, allegedly he started to struggle to get new contracts so he decided to go perm which significantly reduced his earnings. The flat had appreciated considerably so he extended his mortgage; obviously dont know by how much or what he did with the monies but it wasnt to buy another property for them to live in. 

Unfortunately his perm job with with Wonga so he was laid off with less than 2 years service so no redundancy. He was again struggling to find work and so put the flat on the market. 

The flat was never worth £650,000... the best examples at the time were going for £625,000 but they had a balcony. This flat had amazing views but no balcony and it had been a rental for a good number of years so needed work. At a minimum new kitchen but the heating in two rooms didnt work and it was an in floor system so a very expensive thing to fix. At best it was £575,000 but he refused offers in that region and then covid happened and people wanted outdoor space more than ever.

The other problem is that though its share of freehold the service charges were massive because its an early 80s building now needing a lot of work with the quote for scaffolding at the time being more than £1m. Service charge on ours was just under £12k, the penthouse was circa £30k. So whilst rent was £2k half that goes out the door on the service charge, another chunk will be on his mortgage and then he has to find the £2k or whatever for the rent on his house. 

@readysteadypop - so in short over extending themselves and being in a bit of a hole 

Makes sense. Always amazed at people who refuse good offers because they think they know better than the market.

pieroabcd

What's most surprising is that people still buy properties on which they don't have exclusive control (including fees)

MyRealNameToo

pieroabcd said:

What's most surprising is that people still buy properties on which they don't have exclusive control (including fees)

Its share of freehold, so does have control - though it became share of freehold after he bought it but he was one of the leaseholders who bought the freehold. About 85% did, the rest are pure leaseholders. 

The problem is that it's a big building, arguably its multiple buildings but all over a semi underground carpark (land is sloped). It has 10 lifts, a swimming pool, all the windows are floor to ceiling but wooden and it's directly on the thames. The lifts need refurbishing being 35ish years old, the roof is leaking in many places and the wooden window frames are rotten but there are circa 60 flats who's windows are directly over water making replacement much harder

Costs are shared based on square footage, as a larger two bed the unit gets a larger slice of the costs than the smaller 2, 1 beds and studios but less than the 3 beds and the 4 bed pent houses. 

saajan_12

MyRealNameToo said:

saajan_12 said:

Fully agree with the OP's view on couples, its a very different dynamic to share the lounge with one other when you're both quiet or talking to eachother vs sharing with two people talking and you're on the edge. Also often less frequency of them sleeping elsewhere or be out on dates etc.
Back when I was doing this, I had a significant price difference if letting to a couple, as its the same bedroom usage but higher intrusion on the living room and slightly more on utilities. 

That assumes the lounge is to be used by the lodger(s) and somewhat depends on the motivation for renting out a room. 

The two places the Mrs was a lodger in before we met she didnt have access to the lounge and it was clearly families trying to get some money in rather than someone looking for a new friend. She was effectively a ghost in the house, unless she left a teaspoon or mug in the sink at which point they reminded her of the rules. 

If two lodgers are dating where do you expect them to be spending the night if neither allow overnight guests? As to single people being out more than couples that very much depends on the people involved. I know single people who are either at work, in the supermarket or at home whereas we will frequently be out in the evenings and barely at home at weekends other than to sleep. 

Well same applies to the kitchen, its easier for two singles (LL and lodger) to cook at the same time if needed, but add in a partner and its often over crowded, which means someone has to wait their turn. 

Your Mrs sounds like a more accommodating person, but not everyone is. There's a ways between looking for friends and just co-existing in more than just a bedroom. 

Re spending the night - I never had a ban, I used to say no more nights with guests than there are nights you're (both) away in a given week. So if the partner had a similar rule, then they could be max 3 nights at mine, 3 nights at the partner's place, 1 night separate a week. So if I'm living with a couple for x days, I have the same number of days with the place to myself. 

pieroabcd

Something has definitely improved since Monday :-)

ReadySteadyPop

pieroabcd said:

Something has definitely improved since Monday :-)

Got somebody?

pieroabcd

ReadySteadyPop said:

pieroabcd said:

Something has definitely improved since Monday :-)

Got somebody?

People are asking 

ReadySteadyPop

pieroabcd said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

pieroabcd said:

Something has definitely improved since Monday :-)

Got somebody?

People are asking 

Good result.