Smart meter goes dumb after two years

mmmmikey

Baldytyke88 said:

You need something like - "TP Link 300Mbps Universal Wi-Fi Range Extender".

Does your smart meter work via wifi or a mobile signal?

Hi - none of the smart meters use WiFi for transmitting the data to the supplier. In the south of the country, they use the mobile network and in the north they use a different network provided by Arqiva (who also provide the network for various other services like the Lifeguards IIRC).

Scot_39

Baldytyke88 said:

You need something like - "TP Link 300Mbps Universal Wi-Fi Range Extender".

Does your smart meter work via wifi or a mobile signal?

No standard smart meter comms hub WAN works via wi fi afaik.

WAN to DCC for suppliers Arqiva lrr or 2g/3g cellular in midlands / south on older hubs in many areas or 4g if newer hub.

Scot_39

Reed_Richards said:

The engineer tried connecting the comms hub on a flying lead instead of directly to the meter but that did not work.  The length of the lead was very short, only about half a metre.  I don't know if LRR aerials are feasible/available.  

Octopus do 1 that is 0.5m or 1.5m according to smartme for Kaifa meters, which I guess is what was tried.

Some with lrr type have lashed up their own dipole relay with some rod, pipe and aeriel cable with reasonable success, but not tge most elegant looking in some cases but 2.50/day ?

Have you asked about maybe dual wan lrr/ 4g which users have referred to, or if desperate asking your supplier to break regional demarcation and go cellular.

RE arqiva lrr dipole there are links in some threads here, and on web.

ossian

Does anyone know where we are with the roll out of 4G smart meters in Scotland/North of England/Arqiva?

Qyburn

We're in the same boat, except that Octopus can retrieve the H/H data for import (but not export or index) if I phone and ask them. Using the Octoprice data checker the data fills in while I'm on the call, but it's a few hours before it appears in my account.

Ironically the meter tech actually had a cellular comms hub unpacked and ready to fit. But unfortunately the replacement LRR hub actually worked, although only for a few days.

Like the OP our meter worked fine from installation in January 2023 until late last year. So I'm find it hard to believe it's a signal strength issue.

Reed_Richards

The most frustrating feature of my problem is that most of the time the WAN light flashes every 5 seconds, indicating a normal connection, according to the documentation.  So even if I was ambitious and tried to rig up a repeater-aerial (one of @Ildhund's ideas) I could not tell if I had it positioned correctly until the following day if data started being received again.  Imagine trying to tune a radio with a 24 hour delay until you hear the result of any twiddle of the dial you make!

I know the LRR signal strength is poor where I am but I can't see any good reason why it has got worse, unless the transmitter was turned down a bit.  I haven't yet discovered how to find out where the transmitter is.  So I can't help wondering if my and @Qyburn's problems are down to some DCC fault.  

Scot_39

ossian said:

Does anyone know where we are with the roll out of 4G smart meters in Scotland/North of England/Arqiva?

The DCC and wider govt bodies involved - were discussing proposed regulatory changes in a consultation exercise that ended in early May - and went largely to their proposals - so reported on at end of May.

And I dont fully understand how the various responsibilities here - but this from the DESNZ

https://smartenergycodecompany.co.uk/documents/sec/20250331-desnz-consultation-on-sec-changes-for-4g-north/

"4. The DCC is planning to extend 4G services to the north from 30 May 2025, meaning
that from that date, energy suppliers will be able to install 4G Communications Hubs
in the north."

But as to whether thats really happening ?

As it seems to be bypassing some normal regulatory / parliamentary norms on changes - which had threatened much later 2025.

And just a nother little gem I found was the DCC seem more than a little annoyed re those who have installed 2g/3g in North.  

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/5gzg3iib/out-of-region-ch-installations-v10.pdf

More than just the few that have made media headlines - around 35,000 apparently - and cost I guess might be part of the problem - when the quoted cost of supporting them out of area = £3m pa - /35k = c£85 pa per current meter, to maintain 2g/3g cellular I guess to support those meters) but might have included provision for the proposed ceiling of 100,000 the consultations was considering imposing as a lifetime cap.

And thats a July consultation - that closed just 3-4 weeks ago (Jul 18th) in theory after the 4G roll out allowed - had two options - enable that provision in north and pay - or force suppliers of all c35k 2g/3g to upgrade by Dec.

Again their is reference to 4G for the north entering into play on the 30th May 2025.

Qyburn

Reed_Richards said:

I know the LRR signal strength is poor where I am but I can't see any good reason why it has got worse, unless the transmitter was turned down a bit.  I haven't yet discovered how to find out where the transmitter is.  So I can't help wondering if my and @Qyburn's problems are down to some DCC fault.  

Have you tried to see if your supplier can read anything by making a manual request?  It would be interesting if the symptoms are the same - nothing updates automatically,  manual requests for import works, requests for export or index both fail. And if it's the same type of meter, Kaifa MA120, even more so.

I remember reading that there are different ways for the supplier to pull data, something like "timed" where the requests get queued and processes when it suits the DCC and "immediate". I may have the terms wrong, but I guess suppliers normally use "timed" but when I phone and ask the initiate an "immediate".

It's tempting to try that dipole idea but there's nowhere obvious to put it, the meter's outside the house anyway so all could really do is run the cable high up the wall.

Reed_Richards

I wish the information about "timed" and "immediate" requests was published somewhere so you could have an informed conversation with your supplier.  I have no idea what my supplier has tried or not tried to do to fix the problem.  In March 2024 they either did something remotely or it fixed itself spontaneously.  This time they sent an engineer who replaced the comms hub with no benefit.  The engineer also removed my IHD and I didn't get a new one because he asserted that you need a comms signal to set-up the IHD.  Is that true?   

Qyburn

Reed_Richards said:

The engineer also removed my IHD and I didn't get a new one because he asserted that you need a comms signal to set-up the IHD.  Is that true?   

I think the IHD is paired with comms hub remotely, ie as part of the commissioning process.  Does it show up as a device on https://homebrew.n3rgy.com/ ?

I have the Octopus Mini and they did something to get if working three days after the CH was replaced.  Now the Mini works all the time.