Please help me understand my nan's will

NomadicBrit

Edit: Thanks for all your replies, everyone. Most of my questions are answered now, but i do have one more whichi 'm posting here for people to still asnwer if they can.

The only real question I have left is that if I'm not entitled to claim anything from my nan's will, then why are me and my sister still going to benefit anyway? From where is that money coming from?

Does this happen often with wills? Could that money be coming from a deed of variation so that me and my sister legally benefit? (especially now we're older with our own responsibilities)

Original post follows:

Hi everyone,

I purchased a copy of my nan's will from the government's website, as she recently passed away from dementia, and I'm trying to make sense of it, so i can get my share of her legacy to help fund my life goal of leaving the UK.

 My mum, her sister and her parents sorted the will out in 2017, shortly after my nan was diagnosed with dementia. Even though I was over 18, I had no involvement in the process (is this legal)? My sister did not, as she was a minor. I'm aware they aimed to sperate their affairs so that when my nan goes, Grandad wouldnt be forced to sell her house to pay for her care.

My grandad is still alive. I am now no contact with my mum and her husband as she was abusive, but am on good terms with the rest of the family.

This is how im understanding my nan's will.

My grandad can remain in their house for the rest of his life.

My mum and her sister now co-own the property as Property Trustees but must prioritise Grandad's interests.  When Grandad passes, they'll be able to sell it or do whatever else they want with it.

There's nothing about cash on there at all. Me and my sister aren't directly named on the will at all, but I think we fall under benefeciaries as per these two paragraphs:

Section 3, paragraph 7

"Subject as above the Property Trustees shall hold the capital and income of the Trust Fund for my daughter [my mum] and my daughter [mum's sister] which shall be held by them or the survivor of them in equal shares and if either of them shall fail to obtain a vested interest leaving issue who are living at the end ofthe trust then such issue shall take bysubstitution such failed share and ifthere shall be more than one of such issue they shall take in equal shares per stirpes"

Section 8

Further Gift of Residue
I give my Residuary Estate for such of my daughter [my mum] and my daughter [mum's daughter] as shall survive me and if more than one in equal shares and if either of them shall fail to obtain a vested interest leaving issue who survive me then such issue shall take by substitution such failed share and if there shall be more than one of such issue they shall take in equal shares per stirpes but so that no issue shall take whose parent is alive and so capable oftaking"

does this mean I can get my share of my nan's legacy? or am I dependent on my mum's wishes? Because if so, I worry she may try to pull a fast one to deprive me of my share out of spite for me cutting contact. if so, what should i do?

The probate says that my nan's estate is around £130k gross. So assuming Nanna and Grandad split their estate in 2017, am i right in assuming Grandad's share is double this amount? of course, i know it wont be 130k cause there will be other debts.


I haven't directly spoken to my grandad yet, but my sister told me he has discussed it with her and we're both due to get an amount that, in her words, is enough to pay for a bit more than a used car (around 1.5-2k). I purchased the will from the government website in part so that if any disputes arise, I know what her will said.

My other concern is that I suspect it'll be a while before I get my share as I believe my grandad, mum and sister may have to amend the will. This is because my mum is disabled/on benefits. She was on legacy benefits when I knew her and will likely have moved over to UC now. Once UC know about her co-owning the home and the income, this will affect her benefits. Her sister is also disabled, but i don't know what benefits shes on. I know she has a private pension because she worked for many years. so i'm not just concerned abou my share, but also about the DWP completing f'king things up for them too.

i've never dealt with a family death to this extent before, so I would greatly appreciate any help understanding what to do.

swingaloo

There is no reason that you should have been involved in the making of the will at all. 

You are not named directly in the will and so you have no claim at all. It may even be possible that there will be nothing left after your  grandfather passes as there may be care home fees to pay.

There is no legacy for you to get now or later as it will depend what your grandfathers will says as he would inherit from his wife.

No one can 'amend' the will, the trustees of the will have to follow it to the exact point. It is concerning though that you say the will was made After your nan was diagnosed with dementia.

But you need to forget about going after your share, you don't have a share to go after.

Reed_Richards

I'm sorry to disappoint you but as I read the will, your mother and her sister will inherit everything mentioned jointly, one half each.  If your mother had died before your nan did, then her share would have been divided between you and your other siblings.  But if your mother was alive when your nan died then you get nothing, at least nothing mentioned in either paragraph.  Provided your nan was of sound mind when she made the will this is perfectly legal and it is both legal and normal practice that you were not involved.  Your idea that you are bound to get an inheritance is wrong.  

sheramber

I agree you and your sister only inherited if your mother had died before your nan.

Then her share would be split between you and your sister.

Since she is alive , the inheritance stops with her.

Keep_pedalling

If you have been left anything the wording you have given for section 8 should read my daughter and my grand daughter not my daughter and my daughter. Is this correct?

Assuming the house was owned by your nan and grandfather, it is not now owned by your mum and your sister, your grandfather is the beneficial owner and legal ownership is between him and the trust created by your nan’s will. If gran was the sole owner then he is still the beneficial owner but the trust is the sole legal owner. 

Amending a will by deed of variation to avoid losing benefits is deliberate deprivation of assets so all that will achieve is losing both benefit and inheritance. 

NomadicBrit

swingaloo said:

There is no reason that you should have been involved in the making of the will at all. 

You are not named directly in the will and so you have no claim at all. It may even be possible that there will be nothing left after your  grandfather passes as there may be care home fees to pay.

There is no legacy for you to get now or later as it will depend what your grandfathers will says as he would inherit from his wife.

No one can 'amend' the will, the trustees of the will have to follow it to the exact point. It is concerning though that you say the will was made After your nan was diagnosed with dementia.

But you need to forget about going after your share, you don't have a share to go after.

that's disappointing. though that does make me wonder why my grandad said me and my sister are still going to get some money though. Is that more a goodwill gesture? if so, from whos part of the estate is it coming from?

Also, just want to clarify my nan and grandad already had a joint will long before my nan was diagnosed with dementia, they had to seperate their affairs so that my grandad wouldn't have to sell their property to pay for nanna's care home fees for when things got to that point. Which they would have done, if my nan didn't die before going into a care home.

my nan was fully able to consent when they rearranged the affairs. she was in the esrly stages of dementia, and it's one of the first things they did after she got her diagnosis. so while you're right to be concerned on principle, it's not applcable in this case.

Keep_pedalling

NomadicBrit said:

swingaloo said:

There is no reason that you should have been involved in the making of the will at all. 

You are not named directly in the will and so you have no claim at all. It may even be possible that there will be nothing left after your  grandfather passes as there may be care home fees to pay.

There is no legacy for you to get now or later as it will depend what your grandfathers will says as he would inherit from his wife.

No one can 'amend' the will, the trustees of the will have to follow it to the exact point. It is concerning though that you say the will was made After your nan was diagnosed with dementia.

But you need to forget about going after your share, you don't have a share to go after.

that's disappointing. though that does make me wonder why my grandad said me and my sister are still going to get some money though. Is that more a goodwill gesture? if so, from whos part of the estate is it coming from?

Also, just want to clarify my nan and grandad already had a joint will long before my nan was diagnosed with dementia, they had to seperate their affairs so that my grandad wouldn't have to sell their property to pay for nanna's care home fees for when things got to that point. Which they would have done, if my nan didn't die before going into a care home.

my nan was fully able to consent when they rearranged the affairs. she was in the esrly stages of dementia, and it's one of the first things they did after she got her diagnosis. so while you're right to be concerned on principle, it's not applcable in this case.

Actually their home would have been disregarded for care costs while your grandfather was living there. 

NomadicBrit

Keep_pedalling said:

If you have been left anything the wording you have given for section 8 should read my daughter and my grand daughter not my daughter and my daughter. Is this correct?

Assuming the house was owned by your nan and grandfather, it is not now owned by your mum and your sister, your grandfather is the beneficial owner and legal ownership is between him and the trust created by your nan’s will. If gran was the sole owner then he is still the beneficial owner but the trust is the sole legal owner. 

Amending a will by deed of variation to avoid losing benefits is deliberate deprivation of assets so all that will achieve is losing both benefit and inheritance. 

This makes a lot of sense, thank you

"My daughter" and "my daughter" is correct. My mum and her sister are both my nan's daughters. Didn't want to accidentally doxx them.

You're right about the deed of variation, but i wouldn't put it past my mum to try, sadly. Most people have no idea how cruel the benefits system is.

So because my mum now co-owns the house, because Grandad is living in it, it won't affect her benefits till my grandad passes. Is this correct?

Keep_pedalling

NomadicBrit said:

Keep_pedalling said:

If you have been left anything the wording you have given for section 8 should read my daughter and my grand daughter not my daughter and my daughter. Is this correct?

Assuming the house was owned by your nan and grandfather, it is not now owned by your mum and your sister, your grandfather is the beneficial owner and legal ownership is between him and the trust created by your nan’s will. If gran was the sole owner then he is still the beneficial owner but the trust is the sole legal owner. 

Amending a will by deed of variation to avoid losing benefits is deliberate deprivation of assets so all that will achieve is losing both benefit and inheritance. 

This makes a lot of sense, thank you

"My daughter" and "my daughter" is correct. My mum and her sister are both my nan's daughters. Didn't want to accidentally doxx them.

You're right about the deed of variation, but i wouldn't put it past my mum to try, sadly. Most people have no idea how cruel the benefits system is.

So because my mum now co-owns the house, because Grandad is living in it, it won't affect her benefits till my grandad passes. Is this correct?

That is correct, she and her sister are what are known as remaindermen and don’t actually inherit until their father dies. You grand mother’s share cannot be used to pay care costs while for him, and it is protected if grand father decides to marry and fails to make a new will. 

NomadicBrit

sheramber said:

I agree you and your sister only inherited if your mother had died before your nan.

Then her share would be split between you and your sister.

Since she is alive , the inheritance stops with her.

Ah ok. So, if my mum dies before my grandad, I may benefit from his passing financially then.

As cruel as it is, I kind of hope this does happen. She's disabled/out of work so basically has no estate, and is estranged from both me and my sister due to her abuse, so we'll likely get written out of her will if she remembers to do none. that'd be better than all of her money going to her abusive husband tbh.

saajan_12

NomadicBrit said:

Hi everyone,

I purchased a copy of my nan's will from the government's website, as she recently passed away from dementia, and I'm trying to make sense of it, so i can get my share of her legacy to help fund my life goal of leaving the UK.

 My mum, her sister and her parents sorted the will out in 2017, shortly after my nan was diagnosed with dementia. Even though I was over 18, I had no involvement in the process (is this legal)? My sister did not, as she was a minor. I'm aware they aimed to sperate their affairs so that when my nan goes, Grandad wouldnt be forced to sell her house to pay for her care.

My grandad is still alive. I am now no contact with my mum and her husband as she was abusive, but am on good terms with the rest of the family.

.

Of course its legal, the only people that have to be involved in drafting a will are the person (nan) and their POA if they aren't able. Its her wishes and has nothing to do with random other family members eg grandchildren. 

NomadicBrit said:

This is how im understanding my nan's will.

My grandad can remain in their house for the rest of his life.

My mum and her sister now co-own the property as Property Trustees but must prioritise Grandad's interests.  When Grandad passes, they'll be able to sell it or do whatever else they want with it.

There's nothing about cash on there at all. Me and my sister aren't directly named on the will at all, but I think we fall under benefeciaries as per these two paragraphs:

Section 3, paragraph 7

"Subject as above the Property Trustees shall hold the capital and income of the Trust Fund for my daughter [my mum] and my daughter [mum's sister] which shall be held by them or the survivor of them in equal shares and if either of them shall fail to obtain a vested interest leaving issue who are living at the end ofthe trust then such issue shall take bysubstitution such failed share and ifthere shall be more than one of such issue they shall take in equal shares per stirpes"

Section 8

Further Gift of Residue
I give my Residuary Estate for such of my daughter [my mum] and my daughter [mum's daughter] as shall survive me and if more than one in equal shares and if either of them shall fail to obtain a vested interest leaving issue who survive me then such issue shall take by substitution such failed share and if there shall be more than one of such issue they shall take in equal shares per stirpes but so that no issue shall take whose parent is alive and so capable oftaking".

Nothing in that means you're a beneficiary. If your mum dies before nan, then you (and any siblings) split up mum's share. Since mum didn't die first, that's the end of that road - her share is hers, and its up to her what she does with it in future. 

If in any doubt, read the bit in bold - issue = child in this context, so since your parent is alive, you shall not take nan's money. 

NomadicBrit said:

does this mean I can get my share of my nan's legacy? or am I dependent on my mum's wishes? Because if so, I worry she may try to pull a fast one to deprive me of my share out of spite for me cutting contact. if so, what should i do?

The probate says that my nan's estate is around £130k gross. So assuming Nanna and Grandad split their estate in 2017, am i right in assuming Grandad's share is double this amount? of course, i know it wont be 130k cause there will be other debts.


I haven't directly spoken to my grandad yet, but my sister told me he has discussed it with her and we're both due to get an amount that, in her words, is enough to pay for a bit more than a used car (around 1.5-2k). I purchased the will from the government website in part so that if any disputes arise, I know what her will said.

My other concern is that I suspect it'll be a while before I get my share as I believe my grandad, mum and sister may have to amend the will. This is because my mum is disabled/on benefits. She was on legacy benefits when I knew her and will likely have moved over to UC now. Once UC know about her co-owning the home and the income, this will affect her benefits. Her sister is also disabled, but i don't know what benefits shes on. I know she has a private pension because she worked for many years. so i'm not just concerned abou my share, but also about the DWP completing f'king things up for them too.

i've never dealt with a family death to this extent before, so I would greatly appreciate any help understanding what to do.

You don't have a share to take, mum can't 'do a fast one' as she doesn't owe you anything. If mum is due to inherit a £x then she cannot continue to receive benefits which are restricted to people who don't have £x. Giving that money to you doesnt' change this fact, in the same way that she couldn't get a job, tell the employer to pay her daughter instead and continue receiving benefits. The will doesnt' need amending, mum needs to use the money at her disposal to live, and you'd need to earn your own money to move.