When is a bedroom not a bedroom?

FTBinthedark

It was marketed as a three bedroom. We took that at face value and based our offer on it being a house with two normal sized bedrooms and one small box room. So I know future buyers will obviously base any offers on the fact that one bedroom is very small, and we've priced that in, so to speak.

Just a question of whether the value falls further if it becomes apparent it never had building reg approval or PP as a bedroom.

user1977

Is the function of the room even a concern of the planners? I'd expect them to look more at the external impact of the extension rather than what the room is used for.

silvercar

user1977 said:

Is the function of the room even a concern of the planners? I'd expect them to look more at the external impact of the extension rather than what the room is used for.

This!

You can use rooms for whatever purpose you want. That size room would be marketed as a bedroom if it was upstairs and off the landing. Many 3 bed semis in this country have 2 double bedrooms and a box room. The issue is its location.

Minimum room sizes only come into play with housing issues on benefits and allocation from councils. Outside of these niche areas, they are not an issue.

Saying that, other than at the lower end of the student letting market, I wouldn't expect most people to be happy with a bedroom off a kitchen, unless they were desperate for space and couldn't afford anything else.

Albermarle

silvercar said:

user1977 said:

Is the function of the room even a concern of the planners? I'd expect them to look more at the external impact of the extension rather than what the room is used for.

This!

You can use rooms for whatever purpose you want. That size room would be marketed as a bedroom if it was upstairs and off the landing. Many 3 bed semis in this country have 2 double bedrooms and a box room. The issue is its location.

Minimum room sizes only come into play with housing issues on benefits and allocation from councils. Outside of these niche areas, they are not an issue.

Saying that, other than at the lower end of the student letting market, I wouldn't expect most people to be happy with a bedroom off a kitchen, unless they were desperate for space and couldn't afford anything else.

Perhaps an exception are loft rooms/ second floor rooms. They can only be legally described as a bedroom if they were built to the correct standards, and there is suitable protection and escape routes in case of fire.
If this is not the case, then they should not be used as a bedroom but that does happen of course.

FTBinthedark

Bedroom sizes are relevant for new builds, right? As in new builds do need to adhere to minimum space requirements (of 7.5 sq/m for a single bedroom, I think). Now of course that doesn't apply in a binding way to the PP for an extension, but it is a material consideration. So a planning decision should at least consider the space standards for bedrooms.

eddddy

There isn't a single 'binding' definition of a bedroom.

For marketing via an estate agent...

in simple terms, the law says that the agent must not give information which would mislead a reasonable consumer.

So... would calling it 3 bedrooms mislead a reasonable consumer? If the property details clearly say that one bedroom was off the kitchen on the ground floor (and states the room size), I doubt any reasonable person could say they were misled.


For insurance (i.e. bedrooms based insurance)...

Check your chosen insurer's definition. It might be something like "A bedroom is any room built or converted for sleeping in, even if it's used for other purposes". But to be on the safe side, if I was in any doubt, I would call it 3 bedrooms.


The RICS say...

"There is no statutory definition of the term 'bedroom' in the UK. The term is used to describe a room used for sleeping in and where you would expect to find a bed or other such piece of furniture designed for sleeping on.

An indicator that a room can be used as a bedroom could be that at least a small single bed will fit into it, and in most cases it will have a window, although there is no legal requirement."

link: https://www.ricsfirms.com/glossary/what-is-a-bedroom/ 


And the Valuation Office Agency Rent Officer Handbook appears to say

"The simple test to apply is, for this type and size of property in this or a similar area, how has the property been let, and how do occupants use the accommodation? The size of the room is irrelevant. A room that would never be thought of as a bedroom or living room in a large country house might well be perfectly acceptable to most people, for those same uses, in an expensive, densely populated city."

saajan_12

FTBinthedark said:

Window size is the only real potential issue as to why it might not be up to building regs on a habitable room. As I say, I think it is also probable that it would not have received PP as a bedroom given its size.

FTBinthedark said:

So someone who (like us) is fine with the size of the room and layout, might balk at paying three bedroom prices for a room that might not have been certificated as a bedroom.

The point is the 'certifying' or PP isn't based on what someone chooses to use the room for. If you (or a future buyer) wants to let it via social housing or as an HMO then there will be minimums. But for an owner occupier you can use the room and advertise how you like. 

I think the issue is more
1) if there are physical differences vs the BRs, eg if the room was certified based on having a window / door to the outside which isn't there then that might cause BR issues. 
2) whether the BiB even exists - I personally would price the property barely above other 2 beds, ie as if this room layout wasn't a bedroom. And if most other buyers think the same, then you may well lose money. Of course the counter example to that is yourself, but you have to guess at what 'most' people would think. 

lincroft1710

I would say that 1.6m is rather narrow even for a box room. A standard single bed is 90 cm wide, so giving only 70 cm between bed and further wall. I personally wouldn't consider a room that wide off a kitchen as a bedroom

Section62

user1977 said:

Is the function of the room even a concern of the planners? I'd expect them to look more at the external impact of the extension rather than what the room is used for.

It might be a concern for some aspects of a planning application - for example residential parking standards are often linked to the number of bedrooms, so if you extend the house to add a bedroom then the dwelling might require (say) three parking spaces rather than two.  Likewise outdoor space requirements might be linked to number of bedrooms.

Submitting an application where the room uses aren't identified might prompt a planner to ask if any are bedrooms, especially if located and of a size where you might expect use as bedrooms.

The most likely issue here though is if the window is inadequate for building regs requirements.

sheramber

Was the room furnished when you viewed it?