Owed money by a now closed car garage

sheslookinhot

I would have the car clamped immediately with a contact note left. 

paul_c123

Mildly_Miffed said:

paul_c123 said:

I know what I'd do, given the above.

Stealing a car is rarely the right answer.

Has the limited company been closed?
If not, then whether that particular site is closed or not is irrelevant.

If it has, then he's pretty much out of luck, as an unsecured creditor.

Its not stealing if you're not permanently depriving them of it. Simply, take possession of the car again, and in 2 weeks time if they pay what they owe (in full), the car can be released to either the company or their insolvency agent. At all times, attempt to communicate to inform them of the situation.

IF (we don't know the future....) the money doesn't appear after 2 weeks, the contract would be void and the deal unwind. Be prepared to give the new car back, in return for the full possession of the old car. But it might be that you can renegotiate a deal which doesn't leave you out of pocket with whoever is handling the winding up of the company, if indeed it has gone bust.

But certainly, taking possession of the car gives a lot of leverage and isn't illegal in itself.

Mildly_Miffed

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

paul_c123 said:

I know what I'd do, given the above.

Stealing a car is rarely the right answer.

Has the limited company been closed?
If not, then whether that particular site is closed or not is irrelevant.

If it has, then he's pretty much out of luck, as an unsecured creditor.

Its not stealing if you're not permanently depriving them of it.

...
But certainly, taking possession of the car ... isn't illegal in itself.

Wrong.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/12

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/vehicle-taking-without-consent-revised-2017/

paul_c123

It is neither Theft nor TWOC in these circumstances.

Anyway, it is up to the OP to take direct and obvious action; or to follow the advice of others and see your £4000 drifting out of reach.

HillStreetBlues

paul_c123 said:

In that case, he still has part-ownership of the old car. 

I think the partner could still be full owner of car.
It seems the set up was the dealer agreed to buy the partners car on the condition that the finance was kept in place. If the finance was cancelled  then partner would get the car back (could be the reason the car is still there).
Seems the dealer could have gone belly up before the sale actually completed meaning the partner is still the owner. But the partner would owe the dealership (or who ever is dealing with it) the deposit.

facade

HillStreetBlues said:

paul_c123 said:

In that case, he still has part-ownership of the old car. 

I think the partner could still be full owner of car.
It seems the set up was the dealer agreed to buy the partners car on the condition that the finance was kept in place. If the finance was cancelled  then partner would get the car back (could be the reason the car is still there).
Seems the dealer could have gone belly up before the sale actually completed meaning the partner is still the owner. But the partner would owe the dealership (or who ever is dealing with it) the deposit.

The deposit might not even have been paid, so there could be a shortfall somewhere.

born_again

facade said:

HillStreetBlues said:

paul_c123 said:

In that case, he still has part-ownership of the old car. 

I think the partner could still be full owner of car.
It seems the set up was the dealer agreed to buy the partners car on the condition that the finance was kept in place. If the finance was cancelled  then partner would get the car back (could be the reason the car is still there).
Seems the dealer could have gone belly up before the sale actually completed meaning the partner is still the owner. But the partner would owe the dealership (or who ever is dealing with it) the deposit.

The deposit might not even have been paid, so there could be a shortfall somewhere.

Time to contact finance company & see if they have been paid...

Grey_Critic

Have you got the Registered name of the garage NOT Bobs Motors - Check them online at companies house for name od Directors and possible another address

Aretnap

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

paul_c123 said:

I know what I'd do, given the above.

Stealing a car is rarely the right answer.

Has the limited company been closed?
If not, then whether that particular site is closed or not is irrelevant.

If it has, then he's pretty much out of luck, as an unsecured creditor.

Its not stealing if you're not permanently depriving them of it. Simply, take possession of the car again, and in 2 weeks time if they pay what they owe (in full), the car can be released to either the company or their insolvency agent. At all times, attempt to communicate to inform them of the situation.

IF (we don't know the future....) the money doesn't appear after 2 weeks, the contract would be void and the deal unwind. Be prepared to give the new car back, in return for the full possession of the old car. But it might be that you can renegotiate a deal which doesn't leave you out of pocket with whoever is handling the winding up of the company, if indeed it has gone bust.

But certainly, taking possession of the car gives a lot of leverage and isn't illegal in itself.

"Intention to permanently deprive" like most of the elements of theft has been interpreted quite broadly by the courts. There's a fair chance that holding the property to ransom until money was handed over (or threatening to do so) would meet the definition. There are also offences of blackmail to consider. 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/theft-act-offences

There's a non-zero chance that the OP's partner ends up with a criminal record of he follows your advice.

paul_c123

Aretnap said:

paul_c123 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

paul_c123 said:

I know what I'd do, given the above.

Stealing a car is rarely the right answer.

Has the limited company been closed?
If not, then whether that particular site is closed or not is irrelevant.

If it has, then he's pretty much out of luck, as an unsecured creditor.

Its not stealing if you're not permanently depriving them of it. Simply, take possession of the car again, and in 2 weeks time if they pay what they owe (in full), the car can be released to either the company or their insolvency agent. At all times, attempt to communicate to inform them of the situation.

IF (we don't know the future....) the money doesn't appear after 2 weeks, the contract would be void and the deal unwind. Be prepared to give the new car back, in return for the full possession of the old car. But it might be that you can renegotiate a deal which doesn't leave you out of pocket with whoever is handling the winding up of the company, if indeed it has gone bust.

But certainly, taking possession of the car gives a lot of leverage and isn't illegal in itself.

"Intention to permanently deprive" like most of the elements of theft has been interpreted quite broadly by the courts. There's a fair chance that holding the property to ransom until money was handed over (or threatening to do so) would meet the definition. There are also offences of blackmail to consider. 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/theft-act-offences

There's a non-zero chance that the OP's partner ends up with a criminal record of he follows your advice.

But if its part of a finance deal which has been interrupted, the ownership of the car itself - or a good proportion of it - remains with the OP. It would need to be proven that they are no longer the owner even though they didn't get the money promised for it.