Mum scammed by TechSage

killerkaterina

My elderly father clicked something he shouldn't and the PC screen ended up covered with pop ups, one of them saying to call a phone number to put it right. My mum called this company (TechSage) who put it right and told her a whole pile of nonsense about a trojan virus in "her" Internet. 

She paid them £289 using an MBNA card via PayPal. She does not have a PayPal account. For that money, they put right what they had presumably done themselves in the first place, and installed a piece of safety software that retails at £30.

MBNA says they can't do anything because she approved the payment, but this is obviously a scam preying on panicked elderly people. Is there anything further we can do? Would it be worth approaching PayPal? 

eskbanker

killerkaterina said:

Is there anything further we can do?

Yes, you can educate them about scams and the need to be vigilant.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Is that a debit card OP or a credit card? 

Oddly was watching a video about this last night:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VeD9dUUFl-E

IIRC it was TechSage in the video. 

noitsnotme

killerkaterina said:

My elderly father clicked something he shouldn't and the PC screen ended up covered with pop ups, one of them saying to call a phone number to put it right. My mum called this company (TechSage) who put it right and told her a whole pile of nonsense about a trojan virus in "her" Internet. 

She paid them £289 using an MBNA card via PayPal. She does not have a PayPal account. For that money, they put right what they had presumably done themselves in the first place, and installed a piece of safety software that retails at £30.

MBNA says they can't do anything because she approved the payment, but this is obviously a scam preying on panicked elderly people. Is there anything further we can do? Would it be worth approaching PayPal? 

You don't need to have a Paypal account to pay by card.  Paypal are a payment processor and used by many businesses to process card payments.  You could try complaining to Paypal that one of their business customers is using them for nefarious purposes, but Paypal are not obliged to assist you as far as I am aware.

eskbanker

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Is that a debit card OP or a credit card?

OP said it was an MBNA card and I don't believe they issue debit cards, just credit cards.  It doesn't seem likely that s75 or chargeback would be an option here though, if that's what your question was getting at - payment was made for a cleanup service which was delivered, despite understandable extortion concerns about why that service was needed.

No harm in referring to Action Fraud though....

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

eskbanker said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Is that a debit card OP or a credit card?

OP said it was an MBNA card and I don't believe they issue debit cards, just credit cards.  It doesn't seem likely that s75 or chargeback would be an option here though, if that's what your question was getting at - payment was made for a cleanup service which was delivered, despite understandable extortion concerns about why that service was needed.

S75 states

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

The Act doesn't seem to have a definition of misrepresentation but if you watch the video you get diverted to a webpage via an ad to a site that is basically an image saying there is problems with your computer when there isn't, which is certainly misrepresentation to my mind. Whether it is for the purposes of the Act I can't say but the bank (or ombudsman) will surely know  

Whether Paypal breaks the link invalidating S75 I also don't know, I think it depends upon whether the funds hit a Paypal account and then get spent but if OP's mum doesn't have Paypal I can't see that happens and Paypal are just acting as a payment gateway (but of course happy to be corrected on this). 

sheramber

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

eskbanker said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Is that a debit card OP or a credit card?

OP said it was an MBNA card and I don't believe they issue debit cards, just credit cards.  It doesn't seem likely that s75 or chargeback would be an option here though, if that's what your question was getting at - payment was made for a cleanup service which was delivered, despite understandable extortion concerns about why that service was needed.

S75 states

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

The Act doesn't seem to have a definition of misrepresentation but if you watch the video you get diverted to a webpage via an ad to a site that is basically an image saying there is problems with your computer when there isn't, which is certainly misrepresentation to my mind. Whether it is for the purposes of the Act I can't say but the bank (or ombudsman) will surely know  

Whether Paypal breaks the link invalidating S75 I also don't know, I think it depends upon whether the funds hit a Paypal account and then get spent but if OP's mum doesn't have Paypal I can't see that happens and Paypal are just acting as a payment gateway (but of course happy to be corrected on this). 

What misrepresentation?

They paid to get the  block removed and  it was removed. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

sheramber said:

What misrepresentation?

They paid to get the  block removed and  it was removed. 

There is no block, that is the scam. 

eskbanker

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

eskbanker said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Is that a debit card OP or a credit card?

OP said it was an MBNA card and I don't believe they issue debit cards, just credit cards.  It doesn't seem likely that s75 or chargeback would be an option here though, if that's what your question was getting at - payment was made for a cleanup service which was delivered, despite understandable extortion concerns about why that service was needed.

S75 states

If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

The Act doesn't seem to have a definition of misrepresentation but if you watch the video you get diverted to a webpage via an ad to a site that is basically an image saying there is problems with your computer when there isn't, which is certainly misrepresentation to my mind. Whether it is for the purposes of the Act I can't say but the bank (or ombudsman) will surely know  

Whether Paypal breaks the link invalidating S75 I also don't know, I think it depends upon whether the funds hit a Paypal account and then get spent but if OP's mum doesn't have Paypal I can't see that happens and Paypal are just acting as a payment gateway (but of course happy to be corrected on this). 

I suspect it's likely to come down to exactly what state the PC was in and the extent to which there was actually anything to clean up, but presume that it was actually compromised in some way, or at least it would be difficult to prove otherwise?

Agree re PayPal, my understanding is that its use solely as a payment processor doesn't break the debtor-creditor-supplier chain to disqualify s75 claims.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

eskbanker said:

I suspect it's likely to come down to exactly what state the PC was in and the extent to which there was actually anything to clean up, but presume that it was actually compromised in some way, or at least it would be difficult to prove otherwise?

Doubt the cc will go to court for £300 (assuming Act applies), OP (or mum) just needs to complain hard enough.

OP if they installed something on the computer you should remove it and then run a respected anti virus software, the program that was installed may have malware.

If they use the PC for anything such as banking you'd be wise to change all passwords/login details asap (not via the PC until clean). Would also be a good idea to check how secure their passwords are in general. 

Loads of videos on Youtube about these scams, Pleasant Green is another channel, well worth watching, although presented as entertainment it does educate as well.  

bazdvd

educate dad on safe !!!!!! sites to use. We all use them so no need for embarrassment.