PCN recieved from Excel

Smith2001uk

Hi, 

A family member has received a PCN from Excel in relation to not buying a ticket for their stay. i have studied the thread relating to non POFA and POFA letters but cannot tell if this one is?

Can anyone with a better eye see if it complies with POFA and as such we cannot use that to get out of it. it also states they sent the first PCN in the post 8 days after the alleged contravention. We never received this but i assume that's not a basis to appeal as it appears its assumed to be delivered according to POFA? 

After reading this forum for a long while this is the first time i need to ask for help.

thank you.  

Gr1pr

As its not the NTK PCN letter,  just a reminder,  it's impossible to say if the original NTK PCN letter is compliant with pofa 2012 or not

That NTK PCN letter appears to have been sent within pofa timescales 

Smith2001uk

Managed to find it, hidden in a pile of "to do" paperwork my family member had just ignored. if by not 'appealing' in time have we lost our chance if this is non POFA to get it struck off?

thank you

Gr1pr

It seems to me that its compliant with Pofa2012 in wording and timescales, but you should compare it to the Pofa2012 example in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

Its definitely too late to appeal,  but if the keeper wasn't the driver then they can certainly name the driver,  if they want to 

So is their alleged contravention correct   ?    Was no payment made    ?     If not,  why not  ?

Smith2001uk

i'll have a check to make sure ref POFA versions in the newbies sticky thank you.

Unfortunately the contravention is correct, they didn't make payment and reason was they thought they were just there for 5mins. obviously it was alot longer. They also didn't see CCTV camera's falsely believing it was a human who checked. probably going to have to tell them they will have to pay up now or later when/if it goes to a claim and they have zero defence. 

thank you for you time in this. i have seen you helped alot people, so thank you. 

Gr1pr

It will likely be ANPR cameras, not cctv cameras 

They could have a defence,  possibly based on no landowner authority and poor signage,  but their assumptions were foolish and naive,  so please educate them accordingly 

Car1980

3.1.1

An entrance sign must be displayed and maintained at the entrance to controlled land to inform drivers as appropriate whether parking is permitted subject to terms and conditions, including payment, or is prohibited.

Signage seems inadequate. You could quite easily park where the red Focus is and walk in, without realising you had to pay. Too late to "appeal", but never too late to email them that their charge/invoice will not be paid because no signs were seen and there are no entrance signs, in breach of the 3.1.1 of the joint Code of Practice.

Smith2001uk

Thank you for you help. i have enclosed photos from streetview of the way they entered the car park and the signage that is on show. would you say it was 'adequate' ?

and they definitely parked right near the 2nd photo 

Coupon-mad

Why doesn't the keeper transfer liability now, so the driver receives a fresh PCN? Then they can either appeal it or pay £40.

Smith2001uk

Coupon-mad said:

Why doesn't the keeper transfer liability now, so the driver receives a fresh PCN? Then they can either appeal it or pay £40.

thank you for that great advice, i will sort that

Car1980

Smith2001uk said:

Thank you for you help. i have enclosed photos from streetview of the way they entered the car park and the signage that is on show. would you say it was 'adequate' ?

and they definitely parked right near the 2nd photo 

The top sign says short term parking, nothing about a need to pay. The code specifically says "including payment".

The bottom sign appears to be for straight ahead, not for those turning left before the sign down St Marks Square like your relative did. The first sign you see by doing that is a no parking on double yellows sign.

Not hard to put up a clear "PAY AND DISPLAY PARKING FROM THIS POINT ON" at the entrance is it?