Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track

casper82

Hi folks, I received an email today from some paralegal in Gladstone, and in the email they attached something called "Client’s Skeleton Argument.". Reading through it, it contains arguments against all the points from my witness statement.
"We confirm a copy of the Skeleton Argument has been filed at the Court."

Is this normal ?

Gr1pr

It can and does happen, mentioned numerous times in threads on here, sometimes using the abbreviation skelly

Coupon-mad

Yes a skelly is normal. Changes nowt.

casper82

Okey, thanks everyone for the attempt to help here, appreciate your time. I had the hearing today at the local country court and presented my witness statement and defence in front of the judge, and he dismissed all my points but one, and I lost the case unfortunately.

Bellow is my crib sheet, which I glanced over as I was talking and defending all these points from my WS, but none of them was honoured by the judge, except that the fine in point 7 will be 70£ as per the signage and not the 80£ as per the claim form from Gladstone, that's the only point the judge accepted. He then calculated the interest rate over the years and added some costs, and it came to around 190£ for me to pay in the next 2x weeks. The judge was nice, no issue with that, however I waited 3.5 hours to get into the court room, I was scheduled for 11:30 (I came 30 minutes earlier at 11am) and went into the chamber past 2:30pm, I had no idea it will take this long, so many cases (7-8 cases ) scheduled to start at the exact same time 11:30 but only 3x judges (there was no order as far as I could tell). I was hungry, no water, bored, not a pleasant experience. The chamber was proper, almost like you see it in movies (I was expecting a small room, table + 4x chairs) but it was a full on court room like I committed a crime. The judge was sitting up on a raised platform, separated by a 4 foot wall in between the desks where I was seated and the judge (I was quite far from him, I thought this would be like a literal face to face meeting, but no). When I entered first time to the court room the judge was super nice and explained to me all the details how this process works and what the claim against me is about. He then gave me opportunity to explain my case, which I did as per the WS and my bulletins. This took around 10-15 minutes, not more then 15. He then sent me outside back to the corridors to wait for him to review the case. After further 10 minutes or so in the corridor I was called back in the chamber and he delivered in dept verdict that dismissed all my points except port 7 like I mentioned. Having gone through this whole process, even if I won the case, in my personal experience, I don't think it was worth all the time that I invested to go through this process, all the research and emails etc… (I could have spent the time with my family instead) and had I paid the fine 3x years ago, I would have now forgot about it completely and no stress.
Again this is my personal experience, and hope other people will be more successful with their outcomes. The judge knew I received support from the internet as he spoke at the end "I presume you receive help with your defence and WS from the internet"…

HEARING CRIB SHEET

POINT 1 — Defective Claim (Chan / Akande)

• Claim doesn’t say what term was breached
• Just vague wording: “breach of terms”

“The Particulars of Claim don’t identify the alleged breach clearly.”

• Refer to:
  • Civil Enforcement Ltd v Chan (PN-1)
  • Car Park Management Service Ltd v Akande (PN-2)

“These cases confirm that unclear particulars should not proceed.”

 POINT 2 — Signage not visible (KEY ARGUMENT)

• It was dark (November evening)
• Signs:
  • small
  • not readable from car
  • badly positioned
• Strong evidence:
  • PN-5 → entry view
  • PN-6 → distant sign
  • PN-7 → glare from bright lamp

“The signs could not be read while driving into the car park.”

 Key phrase to say: “The Claimant relies on clear daytime photos. My evidence shows the actual night conditions.”

 POINT 3 — No opportunity to read terms

• Walked from car → Tesco entrance
• No clear signage along route
• Evidence:
  • PN-8, PN-9

“I had no fair opportunity to read or accept any terms.”

• Case:
  • Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest

“You cannot be bound by terms you did not see.”

POINT 4 — Onerous hidden term (15 minutes)

• 15-minute limit when store closed = unusual
• Not clearly highlighted

“This is not a normal supermarket rule and needed clear warning.”

• Compare with:
  • ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis
• Show:
  • PN-12 (big yellow clear sign)

“This site’s signage is nothing like Beavis.”

POINT 5 — Vehicle issue (Frustration of Contract)

• Tried to leave immediately
• Car wouldn’t start (key battery issue)
• Evidence:
  • PN-4

“The delay was outside my control.”

 Key phrase: “Even if a contract existed, it was frustrated.”

POINT 6 — Video Evidence (very strong)

• PN-10 shows:
  • real visibility
  • driver’s perspective
  • unreadable signs

“The video shows exactly what a driver sees at night.”

 POINT 7 — Inflated / unlawful costs

• Claim = £253.19
• But:
  • signage = £70
  • claim says £80 + £70 extra

“The amounts are inconsistent and inflated.”

• Key point:

“This is double recovery.”

• Refer:
  • ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis

“The Supreme Court confirmed the parking charge already covers costs.”

POINT 8 — No landowner authority

“The Claimant has not shown a proper contract with the landowner.”

• No proof they can:
  • issue charges

Coupon-mad

Thankyou for updating even though you lost.

I am sorry to hear the judge wasn't with you even on unclear signs in darkness.

Ordered to pay £190 suggests:

£70 PCN

£50 capped legal fees

£35 claim filing fee

£27 hearing fee

+ A few quid interest on £70.

He removed the fake added DRA fee double recovery so he agreed with you on that, and he recalculated the interest on the PCN only. You did you best but oddly he seemed satisfied that a contract was agreed despite unreadable signs and frustration of contract (vehicle breakdown). I am surprised.

Did no legal rep turn up?

Which court was it? I once sat in a large courtroom with the judge up on a somewhat imposing pedestal section but it is unusual.

casper82

Thanks Coupon-mad, thats correct, no one from gladstone turned up, I was there by myself. This was in Uxbridge Court.

The claim was for 253£ but in the end the judge ordered 187£ ( looking at it now ).

I double checked with the judge if this loss will result in any issues with credit score or any registry added to some records, but he assured me nothing will be affected since this is only a small claim case, which I knew but wanted to hear it from the judge.

With regards to the vehicle breakdown, I made a mistake which I only realised when judge pointed it out, basically I did not mention it in my defence and he could not consider it in my WS because it was not in my defence, so that point was dismissed on this basis.

Well it was an experience, I take full accountability, I am not mad or anything, I learned from it and moving on.

Coupon-mad

Ahh I see.

I wonder of it would have been different if you had pleaded the vehicle breakdown but the thing is, they didn't plead the breach!

As long as you pay it within a month, there's no CCJ effect at all.

If ever there's a next time, at least the new statutory Code of Practice is coming in later this year, if this Government stop doing reshuffles & suchlike! Appeals should hopefully be independent & fair in future, as long as the MHCLG don't stupidly let POPLA and the IAS carry on.

casper82

alright, thanks again, and good luck to you all in future