2012 Vauxhall Meriva Not Starting - RAC Can’t Help

SH88

Hello.

I own a Petrol 2012 Meriva.

Today, after driving 70mph several warning lights randomly came on on the dashboard including the TC light (it had the letters on it) and the Skidding light (I believe it’s the Electronic Stability Control light along with the Engine Management light. The car started to rumble and chug a little so I pulled over into a lay-by.

I let it settle for a min and tried to restart, it cranked once, and then nothing. Every attempt after than it didn’t even crank, but warning lights no-longer on.

RAC arrived and did all the usual checks. Fuel was ok. Oil was ok (but added a little I had in the boot anyway). CKP ok whatever that is, Battery was ok. It couldn’t be jump started. Battery reset was performed. He removed the 4 coils from the center of the engine and tried a new set from his van, but still the same. He unplugged the cables next to the coils and cleaned/WD40’d them, still nothing. He ran diagnostics but no codes were stored.

By the time he was finished it was cranking every time (even now several hours later) but it’s just not firing or getting past the initial crank.

I double checked with a code reader and still no codes.

He said it needs further investigation, so it was towed to my house as local garage is closed today.

I know it’s a long shot, but is there anything else I can look into, or check? Or anything I should be aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

paul_c123

Do you have the appropriate tools and knowhow to check these:

Cam/crank correlation
Immobiliser
Could scope ignition and fuel injector pulsing
Fuel pressure*

There is a quick and dirty workaround to check if its fuel-related, but I'd not recommend it on here. I'd always look at fuel pressure first and take it from there.

paul_c123

Also, if the engine management light came on but there's no codes recorded, this is an anomaly. The EML (except during the start sequence) being on always has an associated code somewhere, because there is nothing which would turn it on without logging a code. 

Mildly_Miffed

Certainly sounds as if there's some kind of ECU glitch gone on - a misfire or mechanical issue wouldn't cause traction control etc to come on, and and a wheel speed sensor or other traction fault wouldn't cause the mechanical issues - but an electrical fault could cause everything you're describing.

SH88

paul_c123 said:

Do you have the appropriate tools and knowhow to check these:

Cam/crank correlation
Immobiliser
Could scope ignition and fuel injector pulsing
Fuel pressure*

There is a quick and dirty workaround to check if its fuel-related, but I'd not recommend it on here. I'd always look at fuel pressure first and take it from there.

paul_c123 said:

Also, if the engine management light came on but there's no codes recorded, this is an anomaly. The EML (except during the start sequence) being on always has an associated code somewhere, because there is nothing which would turn it on without logging a code. 

Mildly_Miffed said:

Certainly sounds as if there's some kind of ECU glitch gone on - a misfire or mechanical issue wouldn't cause traction control etc to come on, and and a wheel speed sensor or other traction fault wouldn't cause the mechanical issues - but an electrical fault could cause everything you're describing.

Thank you both for your quick replies.
I’ll certainly look into those.

I’ll research a little about the fuel pressure.

Mildly_Miffed

SH88 said:

I’ll research a little about the fuel pressure.

You'd like to assume Mr RAC's diagnostics told him that was OK... It would also flag a fault code.

facade

I'll take a guess that it is the crank sensor (or the wiring to it).

When it fails the ecu just thinks that the engine has stalled (because it can't detect that it is going round) and doesn't set any codes, meanwhile all the warning lights come on as if you had turned the ignition on but not started the car.

The rev counter will stay obstinately at zero whilst cranking too, rather than tickle up a couple of notches.

Live OBD data will show zero engine speed all the time.

Goudy

I wonder if the timing chain has jumped.
These Opel/VX Family O engines are prone to chain, chain tensioner and chain guide wear.

facade

Could be, but wouldn't that set a P0011 or P0012 code for the timing error?

Goudy

facade said:

Could be, but wouldn't that set a P0011 or P0012 code for the timing error?

I'm not sure at start up it's overly bothered with cam timings. It's starting strategy won't be the same as it's running strategy.

It sort of knows where the cam angles are (or should be) when cranking at start up, it'll just use static timing until is fires up and RPMs rise..

All it'll be bothered with at start up is TDC for a spark and throwing fuel in.

It's only when it's running and RPM is increasing will it bother with the cam timings and if they don't meet expectation then, well I think yes, you'd be seeing a timing error code.

Don't forget, nearly all VVT actuation is done via solenoids that require a certain amount of oil pressure, which is negligible at crank, so why bother with calculating and using their angles then?

From what the OP writes, the breakdown company have checked there's a spark and fuel but still couldn't get it going. This seems to suggest it knows TDC from the crank sensor.
So if it's sparking and throwing fuel in, something else is stopping it running like the valve timings.

facade

Ah, yes, it can ignore the cam sensor at cranking because the VVT probably can't work anyway.

That would explain why they don't fall back to the cam sensor when the crank sensor fails, it just assumes the engine isn't going round due to a stall or not bothering to use the starter yet, so there is no need to even look for a cam signal.

I'd swap out the crank sensor if they are cheap enough. (Certainly if the rev counter stays on zero when cranking)

For zero cost it would be worth checking the compression to eliminate cam timing, but I've not messed with one, and it might involve dismantling half the car to get the plugs out!

If it was that far out you'd probably hear it cranking a lot faster and smoother too.