Missing building regulations certificate for extensio

Tanooki99

Hi all 
I am hoping to find advice from someone who might havr lived the same experience as me.
We bought a house and during the documents check to exchange contracts, our solicitor asked for documents proving that the extension was built with building regulations.
However in the replies the sellers didn't provide this document.
They only said "it was built in the 80s".
Just recently an engineer noticed that the extension is dodgy and probably missing building regulations certificate. So I searched in my emails and couldn't find trace of paperwork shared with us or notice that we needed to be careful about it.
So now I dont know what to do. Is it okay for solicitors to not warn potential buyers of such important documents missing? Of course when the reply came through the solicitor saw the info. At the time lots of paperwork was exchanged and I am not a person thay deals with legal stuff, I naively hoped the solicitor  would have had the decency to drop an email saying to be careful and inform us of the potential consequences.
Can I sue the solicitors?

I can face  a over 50k bill to pay to rebuild the extension now

youth_leader

The extension on my purchase was built in 2002, and I was able to see the permission on line at the council planning department.  Permission had actually been applied for retrospectively in 2007.  I don't know when the planning info started to be on line, but might be worth a look?

youth_leader

This is on our Northumberland site. Do I need planning permission? | Northumberland County Council.  Seems not all extensions need permission.  

 When I first moved in here my semi detached bungalow neighbour had a glass conservatory.  Through the 'grapevine' I heard he was going to convert it to a brick built roofed room.  I was a bit fed up as it juts out about six foot and looked at the council web site - seems as he was using the same 'footprint' as the glass conservatory, and the 'footings' would not change, no permission was needed.   It is next to my second spare bedroom at the back, I don't think I've lost much light.

gm0

There are a number of moving parts here.  An extension built long ago - either within the then permitted development rules.  Or with planning.  May well not have had an actual BC certificate issued.  And this could be entirely normal (for then). Asking for it 40 years and three buyers and sellers later doesn't magic it into existence.  

The paperwork and the conveyancing desire to see them arose later than the original works.  LA's vary around the country as to when it became routine and normal to do them properly (as we now see it).  Conveyancers (local anyway) know this. Prior to that the point LA involvement such as it was - a BC inspector should visit - during development and see particular ground or structural works and "sign off".

So the vendor answer - this extension was built in the 1980s we don't have that - travelled from vendor to their conveyancer to yours.  And was the answer to "is there a BC paper for it".  A quite common one for older properties.  This of itself is not a surprise nor does it have major - legal - consequences.  So the conveyancer will most likely have mitigated off their risks by sending all the answers and a bunch of attachments as received - to you.

Planning and BC enforcement time limits are longer now but decades old structures do not trigger action from the LA - other than listed buildings where "bad change" debt is inherited down the owners.  It was <5 years.

Whether you employ a surveyor to inspect construction and condition is a due diligence decision you make.  Not the lawyer.  Who as usual have covered themselves off in most cases via a process designed to get the fees and minimise any tail of liability.

Of course a surveyor isn't magic - can't see inside buried structure.  And isn't allowed to open up.  Unless this is specifically arranged - which no sane vendor will agree to pre-sale.  Can I smash up your walls and ceiling to inspect lintels and their supports.  With no commitment to buy or make good or anything else. Pre-exchange.  Err....No - you cannot. 

Not what you hoped to hear no doubt.  But there it is.  For a standard question and response setup.

Your conveyancer may have mucked up and not told you something significant or passed on answers.  In which case there may be some liability - if you can prove it definitively.  If they followed their standard bottom covering process you likely cannot.

Not understanding their role.  And not understanding how surveys work (and don't) is something you have now tripped over.

Ms_Chocaholic

How long ago did you purchase the property.  Did you get a survey before your purchase? If yes, what did that say?

Petriix

Tanooki99 said:

Just recently an engineer noticed that the extension is dodgy and probably missing building regulations certificate.

I'm struggling with this part. What's dodgy about a 40 year old extension? 
It's not going to be built to current regs, but neither will the rest of the house. Is it falling down or showing signs of structural failure? 
Why would it need to be rebuilt?

Either there's some significant detail missing from your post or you've jumped to a totally illogical conclusion. Old building work is only an issue if there are genuine structural problems. No one is going to care about hypothetical missing paperwork from the 1980s. When you sell the house you'll answer in the same way as the previous seller, and that will be totally fine.

Bigphil1474

OP, the Dorma on my old house didn't have BC sign off either, I did have some hand drawn plans from when it was built around 1980. Didn't need BC sign off. There is something called regularisation which you can apply for, but I think that's limited to anything built after 1985.

Even if the extension was built to the correct standards of the time and had been signed off by BC, it doesn't guarantee that it wouldn't be having problems now. You need to provide more detail if you want help. Could it be subsidence? Would seem strange for an extension to be fine for 40 years then suddenly start falling down.

user1977

What did your surveyor say about the "dodginess" or otherwise of the extension? 

Albermarle

Family member been through something similar recently. I posted on here and the consensus was that work done 40 years most likely did not require Building Control sign off, as it was not a regular thing then ( it varies a bit between local authorities) . The solicitors said the same, that they would not normally expect to see a BC sign off document from so long ago.

OP - This Building Control 'issue' is a red herring. As others have asked-
Did you have a survey and what did it say?
How is the extension 'falling down' ?

Tanooki99

Albermarle said:

Family member been through something similar recently. I posted on here and the consensus was that work done 40 years most likely did not require Building Control sign off, as it was not a regular thing then ( it varies a bit between local authorities) . The solicitors said the same, that they would not normally expect to see a BC sign off document from so long ago.

OP - This Building Control 'issue' is a red herring. As others have asked-
Did you have a survey and what did it say?
How is the extension 'falling down' ?

Hi there thanks for your reply! 
I did have a survey and nothing was flagged regarding the extension. At the time of the inspection the sellers had lots of cluttering in the conservatory room/illegal extension so the surveyors said it was difficult to inspect and even walk around.
The extension is falling down bacause there is a large crack on one of the walls and the back door keeps catching no matter how many times we call people to help us lock it.
They told us is possibly due to lack of fundations.

If we want to rebuild it will we need planning permission? I'm so confused 

Tanooki99

Petriix said:

Tanooki99 said:

Just recently an engineer noticed that the extension is dodgy and probably missing building regulations certificate.

I'm struggling with this part. What's dodgy about a 40 year old extension? 
It's not going to be built to current regs, but neither will the rest of the house. Is it falling down or showing signs of structural failure? 
Why would it need to be rebuilt?

Either there's some significant detail missing from your post or you've jumped to a totally illogical conclusion. Old building work is only an issue if there are genuine structural problems. No one is going to care about hypothetical missing paperwork from the 1980s. When you sell the house you'll answer in the same way as the previous seller, and that will be totally fine.

Thank you for your answer. The extension has a big diagonal crack on the wall next to the back door. Also upstairs the wall above it has significant cracks around the bay window.
The door in the extension keeps dropping and is difficult to lock.
The windows upstairs now dont lock anymore and catch when I try to close them.
On the other side of the house (no extension)there are no cracks, not around walls or windows and thw floor doesnt feel like sinking.
Sorry maybe I'm using the wrong words here, but this is the best I can do to explain..