EPC not fully disclosed

SDLT_Geek

martindow said:

Is it listed as one property or two at the Land Registry?  If there are two titles then it could be a linked transaction and SDLT can be higher

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sdlt-linked-purchases-or-transfers

@SDLT_Geek is the expert for this.

SDLT could indeed be higher if you are buying two dwellings in one transaction, potentially the higher rates for additional dwellings could apply.  It might well be that in fact the two parts are not sufficiently self-contained for the property to count as two dwellings for SDLT, even if it needs two EPCs.

twopenny

I'd say it was simple.

There's only option to put one EPc on the website and the form for producing a brochure so they picked the main house which is the important one for most people.

Annex and such usually aren't so well insulated because they aren 't used in the same way.

Really don't see this as room for negotiation as the information is easily found and they are mostly based on some odd ideas if you really go into them..

People will buy a house for all sorts of reasons. The EPC isn't usually one of them.

BikingBud

twopenny said:

I'd say it was simple.

There's only option to put one EPc on the website and the form for producing a brochure so they picked the main house which is the important one for most people.

Annex and such usually aren't so well insulated because they aren 't used in the same way.

Really don't see this as room for negotiation as the information is easily found and they are mostly based on some odd ideas if you really go into them..

People will buy a house for all sorts of reasons. The EPC isn't usually one of them.

Bizarre isn't it we put great store in a new kitchen or bathroom but nobody cares how energy inefficient the property might be.

A house that is self sufficient for electricity, producing 4.5 MWh per year and possibly driving air source heat pump gets very little positive action yet get a granite worktop and a pot filling tap - wow, I must have that!

I would want to know why there are 2 EPCs as I would be more cornered about how a property has come to have 2 EPCs, are they separate and will accrue additional stamp duty or perhaps even Council Tax?

BikingBud

silvercar said:

Nirrot76 said:

youth_leader said:

If the annexe is fully self contained are they stating it has a council tax band?

Not listed as having its own council tax band. I've just never seen it before, it’s being listed as one entire property but has 2 separate EPCs. The main house is listed as C, with the annexe listed as D.

My guess would be the seller wanted to show the house as a C. The only way to do that was to separate out the EPC for the annexe.

So potentially deliberately misleading then?

Why doesn't that concern anybody?

ComicGeek

BikingBud said:

silvercar said:

Nirrot76 said:

youth_leader said:

If the annexe is fully self contained are they stating it has a council tax band?

Not listed as having its own council tax band. I've just never seen it before, it’s being listed as one entire property but has 2 separate EPCs. The main house is listed as C, with the annexe listed as D.

My guess would be the seller wanted to show the house as a C. The only way to do that was to separate out the EPC for the annexe.

So potentially deliberately misleading then?

Why doesn't that concern anybody?

If the annex has its own front door, and isn't linked internally to the main house, then it would have had to have its own EPC. Its not possible to include 2 separate self contained buildings on a single EPC, even if they are on the same title deed. It used to be that you could only have 1 live EPC linked to an address (so the annex wouldn't have been able to have an EPC in the past as well), but that's been changed now hence the 2 separate EPCs.

The separate EPCs should be triggering questions about how it is treated for council tax (and how the OP is planning to use the annex in respect to local council tax), rather than the much less likely option of the owners deliberately misleading prospective purchasers about EPC ratings.

BikingBud

ComicGeek said:

BikingBud said:

silvercar said:

Nirrot76 said:

youth_leader said:

If the annexe is fully self contained are they stating it has a council tax band?

Not listed as having its own council tax band. I've just never seen it before, it’s being listed as one entire property but has 2 separate EPCs. The main house is listed as C, with the annexe listed as D.

My guess would be the seller wanted to show the house as a C. The only way to do that was to separate out the EPC for the annexe.

So potentially deliberately misleading then?

Why doesn't that concern anybody?

If the annex has its own front door, and isn't linked internally to the main house, then it would have had to have its own EPC. Its not possible to include 2 separate self contained buildings on a single EPC, even if they are on the same title deed. It used to be that you could only have 1 live EPC linked to an address (so the annex wouldn't have been able to have an EPC in the past as well), but that's been changed now hence the 2 separate EPCs.

The separate EPCs should be triggering questions about how it is treated for council tax (and how the OP is planning to use the annex in respect to local council tax), rather than the much less likely option of the owners deliberately misleading prospective purchasers about EPC ratings.

So is it an annex or a self contained building?

As a self contained building with separate CT then should it not have its own separate address? So no multiple EPCs per address.

All of this could be explained in the property particulars and even if the website only has space to attach one EPC there is no reason why the second EPC cannot be attached as any other image, 3 bathrooms > at least 3 bathroom pictures. Even easier where particulars are produced by the EA to any format that they wish to use.

The vendor knows the situation.

The EA should seek to understand the situation such that they can advise potential purchasers how the properties are presented and what the benefits and liabilities might be.

The fact that the vendor or the EA have decided not to communicate this is deliberate.

BikingBud

twopenny said:

I'd say it was simple.

There's only option to put one EPc on the website and the form for producing a brochure so they picked the main house which is the important one for most people.

Annex and such usually aren't so well insulated because they aren 't used in the same way.

Really don't see this as room for negotiation as the information is easily found and they are mostly based on some odd ideas if you really go into them..

People will buy a house for all sorts of reasons. The EPC isn't usually one of them.

Some very broad assumptions there.

See my previous about the ability of the EA to present in any manner they so desire. 

But the fact that you are so dismissive about the reason some might buy a house with an annex, bringing elderly parent to live alongside being but one. I would consider in that situation the energy efficiency of the annex is even more important as the elderly can have problems with sustaining body temperature and can be very susceptible to cold.

If you are buying a cowshed to convert then you might not care what the starting point is but if you want to understand how well prepared the annex has been and what the costs might be to improve the performance, then you would be very interested in the EPC for the annex. And if the cost to improve to an acceptable state, to your required standard, is 25-30k there might be every reason to renegotiate. 

People will walk away from houses for all sorts of reasons, the low EPC rating may very well be one of them.