What would you do? 2 Houses 1 Freehold but Creeping

Jennie-1987

The house we are interested in buying used to be semi-detached and the owner built to the side thus making it a terrace. They kept the freehold which covers both properties and the same Title Number is shared. However the newer build was sold off as leasehold many years ago. Additionally, ‘our’ downstairs wc and back hall are now situated inside this new house with their bedroom and bathroom running over the top. The lease has a ground rent of £10 per annum and we know it hasn’t been paid the last 3 years (not that we would be worried about losing out on that as it’s so little). 

The freehold and title number currently covers both plots so it’s not a creeping freehold on ours but has similar implications. We should have right to shelter and they should have right to support.

Would you wipe your hands of it as a potential purchase given the above?
Is this situation super complicated and should be avoided? Is it only likely to go well with the nicest of neighbours? Will it be a problem with mortgages?

We contacted our solicitor and it’s £300 for their review of the documents alone.

eddddy

It's a leasehold property, so presumably the next-door property is leasehold as well?

So the key question would be "what are the terms of the lease?" 


For example...

• How many years are left on the lease
• What parts of the building are you responsible for maintaining / repairing?
• What parts of the building is the neighbouring leaseholder responsible for maintaining / repairing?
• What parts of the building is the freeholder responsible for maintaining / repairing?

• What share of the the freeholder's costs would you have to pay (and what have those costs been in the past, etc)?

• How is buildings insurance arranged?

• What rights do you have to the garden? e.g. Is it demised to you under the lease, or do you just have exclusive rights to use it?

• Do you need consent for alterations, sub-letting, keeping a pet etc?

• Are there constraints on what you can do in the garden (e.g. put up a shed, keep chickens, etc)?

FWIW, it doesn't sound like the property meets the legal definition of a 'house' in leasehold legislation - it might count as a 'flat' instead - so you might  not be able to use the legislation to buy the freehold (only to extend the lease).

Jennie-1987

Just to quickly say - the property we would be buying is not leasehold, it is freehold with the freehold extending to the land under the newer build home next door. Next door is leasehold, which we would not own, and is built attached to the side of the house we want with the wc and back hallway crossing into it, much like a creeping freehold (if it didn’t already own the freehold of that land). 

MyRealNameToo

So originaly there was a semi, a gap and then another building. Someone built a property in the gap that is terraced to both the semi and the other property. You are considering buying the other property and not the original semi nor the leasehold property that was slotted between/over the two?

user1977

I don't think that's a creeping freehold. Who's told you it is? 

Jennie-1987

The freehold is for the land under all buildings;
- blue being the property for us
- yellow the leasehold property owned by a neighbour
- green being the rooms that are part of ‘our’ house and run under the first floor of the neighbour property

Jennie-1987

MyRealNameToo said:

So originaly there was a semi, a gap and then another building. Someone built a property in the gap that is terraced to both the semi and the other property. You are considering buying the other property and not the original semi nor the leasehold property that was slotted between/over the two?

Originally house A and B existed together making them semi-detached. House A is the one we want. House B is just an original neighbour and no part of the title. 

House A decided to build onto itself on the unattached side to create the new build thus making a run of 3 houses. House A has the freehold to land both it and the new build sit on. As House A has houses attached either side it is now a terraced house. 

House A have some of their house sat under the first floor and attached to ground level walls of the new build.

Jennie-1987

user1977 said:

I don't think that's a creeping freehold. Who's told you it is? 

If the freehold wasn’t for the land under the entire new build but just the wc and hall that sit under it there would be a creeping freehold. As there is an intertwining of the buildings there are similar obligations to a creeping freehold - right of support the house owes part of the new build first floor, right of shelter the new build owes part of the house ground floor.

ExEstateAgent

You would become the landlord of your neighbour. You need to know what the lease says in regards to your responsibilities for maintenance and permission for any works they might want to do etc. 

eddddy

If the property next door is leasehold - then there is no creeping freehold.

It would only be a creeping freehold if both properties were freehold.

Now you've clarified - it sounds more like one freehold building, with part of the freehold building sold off on a long lease.

You would be the landlord. The lease would specify who is responsible for maintaining each part of the building (i.e. roof, walls, foundations etc.), and who has to cover the cost.



But if that's the case, a number of posters here have reported that mortgage lenders don't seem not to like that set-up.

Mortgage lenders would prefer it to be changed to one freehold building, with 2 leases - one for each dwelling.

Jennie-1987

We have now received the lease and there are a TONNE of responsibilities so we are washing our hands of it. We have said if they block up the wc and hall, cutting all services from the house and split the freehold that would be the only way we are interested. It would also be tricky with the mortgage and seems to have an increase in stamp duty as it’s buying a second home. Until you pay out for valuations it’s not 100% but likely.

There are the rights to shelter and rights to support we suspected.