Help!! Gym subscription has being going out of my account for 2.5 years - I thought it was cancelled

Grumpy_chap

MamaG_3 said:

We have raised a dispute with the credit card company - they have temporarily refunded 10 payments I think, but there are no guarantees this will be permanent, and is less than half of the total amount 

MamaG_3 said:

Because the payment was in the name of my kids school, not the leisure company - and it was going out on a joint credit card where both me and my husband would have been topping up the kids lunch accounts to the school with similar amounts so it didn't stand out.

This might give rise to a further complication.
How would the CC know which ten payments to refund?
If they refunded simply the most recent payments, then that would seem likely to include refund of some of the school lunch money and the school will flag that money to be reversed back to them.
Such action will likely close off chargeback for any of the payments.

I really think this is something that you need to take the loss.
It is all too vague and over too long for you to verifiably establish that you did cancel and the payments were taken incorrectly.
Even if you never used the gym, that is not actually an uncommon scenario.  May people join a gym with good intentions, go once and then never return (if they even make that first visit), but every week let some excuse preventing them going but on the proviso that they will go next week.  Then next week, there is another reason not to go, but next week we really will go...

The best action here seems to be to formally cancel the membership now and ensure that the payment requests are ended.  Check the CC statement in far more detail going forward.

Undervalued

Grumpy_chap said:

MamaG_3 said:

We have raised a dispute with the credit card company - they have temporarily refunded 10 payments I think, but there are no guarantees this will be permanent, and is less than half of the total amount 

MamaG_3 said:

Because the payment was in the name of my kids school, not the leisure company - and it was going out on a joint credit card where both me and my husband would have been topping up the kids lunch accounts to the school with similar amounts so it didn't stand out.

This might give rise to a further complication.
How would the CC know which ten payments to refund?
If they refunded simply the most recent payments, then that would seem likely to include refund of some of the school lunch money and the school will flag that money to be reversed back to them.
Such action will likely close off chargeback for any of the payments.

I really think this is something that you need to take the loss.
It is all too vague and over too long for you to verifiably establish that you did cancel and the payments were taken incorrectly.
Even if you never used the gym, that is not actually an uncommon scenario.  May people join a gym with good intentions, go once and then never return (if they even make that first visit), but every week let some excuse preventing them going but on the proviso that they will go next week.  Then next week, there is another reason not to go, but next week we really will go...

The best action here seems to be to formally cancel the membership now and ensure that the payment requests are ended.  Check the CC statement in far more detail going forward.

Indeed. 

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

born_again

sheramber said:

born_again said:

Presumably they were taken as separate payments though? You also mention it was a joint account so both you and your husband had visibility of this and never noticed?

As it was a CC, there is no such thing in the UK. Only acc should be checking the account & balancing the payment. Then checking with additional cardholder what payments they made.

My husband was an additional holder on my credit card. He had online access to it. 

Which one?

I know Amex does allow additional users to view transaction, but other do not. As it is your account.

sheramber

born_again said:

sheramber said:

born_again said:

Presumably they were taken as separate payments though? You also mention it was a joint account so both you and your husband had visibility of this and never noticed?

As it was a CC, there is no such thing in the UK. Only acc should be checking the account & balancing the payment. Then checking with additional cardholder what payments they made.

My husband was an additional holder on my credit card. He had online access to it. 

Which one?

I know Amex does allow additional users to view transaction, but other do not. As it is your account.

Tesco. 

xxx. 

MamaG_3

Undervalued said:

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

Why would you knowingly keep that money? Those are real people and you don't know why you are helping them throw their hard-earned away for nothing.  They could be ill, or have lost a loved one, or be going though a divorce, or suffering an addiction, or supporting family members with the same.  And you also don't know what their financial circumstances are, or what financial hardships they might be facing, or why they haven't had the wherewithal to face their bank statement for a while. You don't know that like me they haven't made a simpe mistake 2.5 years ago and once it was made led to a huge loss. They might be dead.  And you are knowingly shrugging your shoulders so you can keep the money. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do either.  

Aylesbury_Duck

MamaG_3 said:

Undervalued said:

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

Why would you knowingly keep that money? Those are real people and you don't know why you are helping them throw their hard-earned away for nothing.  They could be ill, or have lost a loved one, or be going though a divorce, or suffering an addiction, or supporting family members with the same.  And you also don't know what their financial circumstances are, or what financial hardships they might be facing, or why they haven't had the wherewithal to face their bank statement for a while. You don't know that like me they haven't made a simpe mistake 2.5 years ago and once it was made led to a huge loss. They might be dead.  And you are knowingly shrugging your shoulders so you can keep the money. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do either.  

Any of those things could be true, but at what point does a (perhaps voluntary) committee step into the realms of social work and make judgements/guesses about the welfare of its customers and why they haven't attended for a while?

Non-attending or infrequently-attending members are part of the pricing model for gyms and the like.  People may have the choice of PAYG or a fixed monthly fee which allows almost unlimited use.  They make that judgement when they sign up.  The model  works for most, and particularly those who attend very frequently.  Any gym or club that puts resources into chasing attendance and prompting account closures is almost certainly going to have to cover the costs of doing so by charging the rest of their customers more, even if doing so is very altruistic of them.

Would you have signed up if the rate was 50% more because they routinely cancel the memberships of the third of members who dont attend?  Or if you were a regular attendee and the price went up by 50% for the same reason?

Grumpy_chap

MamaG_3 said:

Undervalued said:

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

Why would you knowingly keep that money? Those are real people and you don't know why you are helping them throw their hard-earned away for nothing.  They could be ill, or have lost a loved one, or be going though a divorce, or suffering an addiction, or supporting family members with the same.  And you also don't know what their financial circumstances are, or what financial hardships they might be facing, or why they haven't had the wherewithal to face their bank statement for a while. You don't know that like me they haven't made a simpe mistake 2.5 years ago and once it was made led to a huge loss. They might be dead.  And you are knowingly shrugging your shoulders so you can keep the money. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do either.  

All of those things you say apply to any subscription of any kind.

Why would the business refund the money?
The business has X number of subscriptions / memberships at £25 per month and understands a level of income forecast against which business decisions are made.
If members cancel, and the subscription income falls, then the business will make decisions to manage that change.  Maybe reviewing product offer and price structure, maybe marketing spend, maybe redundancies.
Either way, the money that the business has received over the couple of years has been spent in one way or another.  The business does not have that money just accumulating in a big bank account.

If the business suddenly has to refund the customer's "huge loss", you don't know what impact that might have on the decisions the business now has to take.  It might force redundancy and result in that team member (that is no longer in the team) then facing the very same type of challenging circumstances you suggest.

MamaG_3

Grumpy_chap said:

MamaG_3 said:

Undervalued said:

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

Why would you knowingly keep that money? Those are real people and you don't know why you are helping them throw their hard-earned away for nothing.  They could be ill, or have lost a loved one, or be going though a divorce, or suffering an addiction, or supporting family members with the same.  And you also don't know what their financial circumstances are, or what financial hardships they might be facing, or why they haven't had the wherewithal to face their bank statement for a while. You don't know that like me they haven't made a simpe mistake 2.5 years ago and once it was made led to a huge loss. They might be dead.  And you are knowingly shrugging your shoulders so you can keep the money. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do either.  

All of those things you say apply to any subscription of any kind.

Why would the business refund the money?
The business has X number of subscriptions / memberships at £25 per month and understands a level of income forecast against which business decisions are made.
If members cancel, and the subscription income falls, then the business will make decisions to manage that change.  Maybe reviewing product offer and price structure, maybe marketing spend, maybe redundancies.
Either way, the money that the business has received over the couple of years has been spent in one way or another.  The business does not have that money just accumulating in a big bank account.

If the business suddenly has to refund the customer's "huge loss", you don't know what impact that might have on the decisions the business now has to take.  It might force redundancy and result in that team member (that is no longer in the team) then facing the very same type of challenging circumstances you suggest.

I don't know how to make these quotes shorter.

Most subscriptions have something that turns up every so often to alert you to the subsciption - I suppose streaming services don't - but then the little icon on the tv reminds you.  Even charities send you stuff.  Dentists get in touch so you make your appointment, the vets tell you your dog needs their worming tablet etc etc.

True from the business side about the refund sure - but then that would make sure businesses had to do more to protect their customers from paying out alot of money for nothing in return in the first place - like contacting them at least once in 2.5 years.  They are the ones that know the money is coming in on their side - chances are their customer doesn't know.  They could pick up a phone for 30 seconds while sat behind a reception desk with nothing to do for instance, because a third of your customers rarely come and another third never come so you have lots of time on your hands unless your business model is heavily over subscribed too - and wouldn't that be illegal?  Relying on knowingly taking money from people you suspect don't realise to support that person that isn't picking up the phone but could be isn't exactly a great moral save.

Altior

Ordinarily you would be contacted to be notified about price increases. Pretty unusual that this fee has remained static through high inflation periods.

Seems to me this is an example where you are responsible, but passing the blame to another party. You actually think it's plausible that they would be chasing you up as you had not gone swimming. It's not actually their business, you subscribed to a service and the service was provided. You just didn't utilise it. Unless of course you can prove that you did actually take steps to cancel the service...

Aylesbury_Duck

MamaG_3 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

MamaG_3 said:

Undervalued said:

I have been on the committee of two sporting / recreation clubs (not gyms) with a significant annual subscriptions and in both cases at least a third of the membership never used the facilities! Another third were occasional at best. The keen members were, or at least should have been, very grateful as but for them the subs would have been much higher.

Sorry OP, but unless you can turn up some proper proof of cancellation I think you will have to write this off as an expensive lesson learnt!

Why would you knowingly keep that money? Those are real people and you don't know why you are helping them throw their hard-earned away for nothing.  They could be ill, or have lost a loved one, or be going though a divorce, or suffering an addiction, or supporting family members with the same.  And you also don't know what their financial circumstances are, or what financial hardships they might be facing, or why they haven't had the wherewithal to face their bank statement for a while. You don't know that like me they haven't made a simpe mistake 2.5 years ago and once it was made led to a huge loss. They might be dead.  And you are knowingly shrugging your shoulders so you can keep the money. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do either.  

All of those things you say apply to any subscription of any kind.

Why would the business refund the money?
The business has X number of subscriptions / memberships at £25 per month and understands a level of income forecast against which business decisions are made.
If members cancel, and the subscription income falls, then the business will make decisions to manage that change.  Maybe reviewing product offer and price structure, maybe marketing spend, maybe redundancies.
Either way, the money that the business has received over the couple of years has been spent in one way or another.  The business does not have that money just accumulating in a big bank account.

If the business suddenly has to refund the customer's "huge loss", you don't know what impact that might have on the decisions the business now has to take.  It might force redundancy and result in that team member (that is no longer in the team) then facing the very same type of challenging circumstances you suggest.

Most subscriptions have something that turns up every so often to alert you to the subsciption - I suppose streaming services don't - but then the little icon on the tv reminds you.  Even charities send you stuff.  Dentists get in touch so you make your appointment, the vets tell you your dog needs their worming tablet etc etc.

True from the business side about the refund sure - but then that would make sure businesses had to do more to protect their customers from paying out alot of money for nothing in return in the first place - like contacting them at least once in 2.5 years.  They are the ones that know the money is coming in on their side - chances are their customer doesn't know.  They could pick up a phone for 30 seconds while sat behind a reception desk with nothing to do for instance, because a third of your customers rarely come and another third never come so you have lots of time on your hands unless your business model is heavily over subscribed too - and wouldn't that be illegal?  Relying on knowingly taking money from people you suspect don't realise to support that person that isn't picking up the phone but could be isn't exactly a great moral save.

The thing is, how do you know the gym didn't contact you at least once in those 2.5 years?  You said yourself that a busy life led to you not realising the payments were still being made and you still don't know whether you cancelled or not.  Are you certain you didn't receive something from them in all of that time?  I don't think you can be.