When can I legally reduce rent payments?

ReadySteadyPop

SarahBDE said:

To answer some of the questions:
It is not an agricultural tenancy. I had an agreement with the landlord that he mows my lawn and I pay him for it. He couldn't be bothered to do it in the second year (but didn't tell me) and while I waited on him, I tried to get on top of the grass myself, which was a loosing battle. He then put sheep in my garden while I was away, without my consent. 
I am in England on an AST.
I am not currently in a position where I can just up and leave. I am also aware that previous tenants have had similar issues and me leaving would just mean the next person moves into this situation. 
The rent was reduced for the first four months of me living here due to the poor conditions. The landlord then upped the rent again but without doing any work. The rent I pay is above market rate for the condition the house is in and would be market rate if it was maintained to a basic legal standard. 
And it took me writing a complaint letter to realise because I am not up on the law. Before moving here I lived in my own flat. What I refer to when I say uninhabitable, I mean rooms not having heating, a heating source for one room not being safe to use as it poses a fire / carbon monoxide risk, exposed pipes across doorways, not being able to maintain temperatures above 18 degrees when it is cold outside. I am an undemanding tenant, I was careful and stepped over the pipes, I didn't fire the unsafe oven, I wear two sweaters in the winter. I did put up with too much for too long. It's not that I never said anything, I did address but didn't press the issues and as they kept mounting up, they became too much to bear, especially since sheepgate. 
I have involved every authority and agency I could, including council, estate, even my MP, while my landlord is taking no action to remedy any of the issues nor does he communicate with me in any meaningful way. There must be a way to put pressure on the landlord to finally take action? This is where I was told that I am allowed to reduce the rent by a reasonable amount as long as I give my landlord notice. 
Why would I ignore CAB or Shelter? I am not. I have conflicting information which is why I came on here to ask my questions. 

Put your energy into finding a new place, leave the landlord with an empty property to graze his cattle on. 

_Penny_Dreadful

SarahBDE said:

Hi everyone. I hope you can help me save on solicitors fees with this one. 

I am an undemanding tenant and have put up with a lot over the past 2 years while always paying on time. During a business trip away, the landlord then took the ultimate Micky and placed livestock into my private garden. He'd trespassed multiple times before, but this took the biscuit. The livestock caused extensive damage, not only to the garden but to personal property. The garden is covered in faeces and unusable. I finally had enough and was no longer willing to put up with any of this, so I wrote up a formal complaint, copying the estate (landlord is an estate tenant who is subletting, with permission, to me) and council (I am waiting on date for inspection). The letter is 6 pages long, outlining a number of legal breaches, fire safety hazards, illegal clauses in the tenancy agreement, repairs he illegally charged me for. The list goes on. When writing my letter of complaint and checking my tenancy agreement and the breaches in the house agains the law I realised that, legally, the house probably counts as uninhabitable.  

In my complaint letter I gave them 14 days to come up with a plan. I wasn't unreasonable, I didn't expect them to fix everything in that time, just come up with a plan. They ignored it all and promised to the estate they are looking into solutions. The two weeks came and went without any direct communication with me or suggested solutions. Therefore, I requested the council to step in and they have raised a job number, though the inspection has not yet happened. I also wrote another letter listing the cost of the damages that I expect to be reimbursed for and also suggested a 50% rent reduction until the issues have been fixed. I'd been reading up on rent reductions and it was my understanding that a court would grant 50-100% in cases with similarly severe breaches and as long as I communicate it ahead of time, I am legally able to do it. They have now emailed me back, accusing me of bullying and harassment and saying they don't agree with any of it and if I hate it so much, why don't I serve notice. Apparently their solicitor will be in touch with me soon. Fine. 

I have spoken to CAB and Shelter, which have been helpful to a point. They both say to not reduce rent under any circumstance. However, I am living in horrendous conditions that don't warrant the full rent payment and I am unlikely to get that money back later. So I want to understand where I stand and what my best next step would be. Thank you so much!

I’ve been thinking about your situation and the legal avenues open to you. 

Keep paying your rent otherwise you’ll open up the Section 8 route for your landlord. If he tries a Section 21 it’ll fail because hasn’t protected your deposit. 

If your tenancy agreement includes the garden and the garden is now full of sheep I’d say that’s a breach of quiet enjoyment and potentially harassment. However, what I think would get more traction is using section 9A of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.  Your landlord has a responsibility to ensure that your home is fit for habitation. Where there are hazards, and I think a garden full of sheep and sheep poo could constitute a hazard, in a property that make it unsafe or unfit, the local authority can take action. 

Local authorities use the Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS) to assess hazards in rented homes. There are 29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” You could contact the local authority to see if they’ll take enforcement action either their environmental health department or private renting team. 

You can also take court action against your landlord and I’d recommend you speak with a solicitor specialising in tenancy law if this is a course of action you want to take. 

Smalltownhypocrite

OP I really suggest you look to move, there is such high chance you will be forced to move going down this route that you might as well save yourself the money and time of courts (you can still report him though but be prepared to move).

As for the rent, view it like the 'restaurant scenario':

You go to a steakhouse and order a Stake raw with chips and blue cheese sauce, they bring your Stake and you moan to the table 'this is overcooked and this is peppercorn sauce' but you still eat it all. Then when they bring the bill you say 'I'm not paying, my food wasn't right' and they simply reply 'but sir you ate it'.

To be valid you would need to raise the issue at the beginning maybe a bite or two in. In a restaurant they would probably say 'I'm so sorry sir' and replace it or discount you. If they refused you could leave WITHOUT eating it. 

The only other argument would be if you got sick due to an allergen from the mistake (in rental term if say you got sick from black mold etc...). A court would order you still pay if you ate it all though.

In your case you have raised your complaint but instead of saying 'sorry sir' and fixing it they have ignored you. Now your options are to 'eat it' (live there) and pay or to leave (move out). The courts will ask you why you didn't leave rather than giving you money back UNLESS you can prove an extenuating circumstance (like being locked in a contract where you couldn't leave without still having to pay, then they will break the contract and might refund some or part of it). 

Emmia

Smalltownhypocrite said:

OP I really suggest you look to move, there is such high chance you will be forced to move going down this route that you might as well save yourself the money and time of courts (you can still report him though but be prepared to move).

As for the rent, view it like the 'restaurant scenario':

You go to a steakhouse and order a Stake raw with chips and blue cheese sauce, they bring your Stake and you moan to the table 'this is overcooked and this is peppercorn sauce' but you still eat it all. Then when they bring the bill you say 'I'm not paying, my food wasn't right' and they simply reply 'but sir you ate it'.

To be valid you would need to raise the issue at the beginning maybe a bite or two in. In a restaurant they would probably say 'I'm so sorry sir' and replace it or discount you. If they refused you could leave WITHOUT eating it. 

The only other argument would be if you got sick due to an allergen from the mistake (in rental term if say you got sick from black mold etc...). A court would order you still pay if you ate it all though.

In your case you have raised your complaint but instead of saying 'sorry sir' and fixing it they have ignored you. Now your options are to 'eat it' (live there) and pay or to leave (move out). The courts will ask you why you didn't leave rather than giving you money back UNLESS you can prove an extenuating circumstance (like being locked in a contract where you couldn't leave without still having to pay, then they will break the contract and might refund some or part of it). 

If I went to a steakhouse and they served me a stake, I'd refuse to eat it, and would send it back immediately....


I'd expect them to serve steak.

sheramber

_Penny_Dreadful said:

SarahBDE said:

Hi everyone. I hope you can help me save on solicitors fees with this one. 

I am an undemanding tenant and have put up with a lot over the past 2 years while always paying on time. During a business trip away, the landlord then took the ultimate Micky and placed livestock into my private garden. He'd trespassed multiple times before, but this took the biscuit. The livestock caused extensive damage, not only to the garden but to personal property. The garden is covered in faeces and unusable. I finally had enough and was no longer willing to put up with any of this, so I wrote up a formal complaint, copying the estate (landlord is an estate tenant who is subletting, with permission, to me) and council (I am waiting on date for inspection). The letter is 6 pages long, outlining a number of legal breaches, fire safety hazards, illegal clauses in the tenancy agreement, repairs he illegally charged me for. The list goes on. When writing my letter of complaint and checking my tenancy agreement and the breaches in the house agains the law I realised that, legally, the house probably counts as uninhabitable.  

In my complaint letter I gave them 14 days to come up with a plan. I wasn't unreasonable, I didn't expect them to fix everything in that time, just come up with a plan. They ignored it all and promised to the estate they are looking into solutions. The two weeks came and went without any direct communication with me or suggested solutions. Therefore, I requested the council to step in and they have raised a job number, though the inspection has not yet happened. I also wrote another letter listing the cost of the damages that I expect to be reimbursed for and also suggested a 50% rent reduction until the issues have been fixed. I'd been reading up on rent reductions and it was my understanding that a court would grant 50-100% in cases with similarly severe breaches and as long as I communicate it ahead of time, I am legally able to do it. They have now emailed me back, accusing me of bullying and harassment and saying they don't agree with any of it and if I hate it so much, why don't I serve notice. Apparently their solicitor will be in touch with me soon. Fine. 

I have spoken to CAB and Shelter, which have been helpful to a point. They both say to not reduce rent under any circumstance. However, I am living in horrendous conditions that don't warrant the full rent payment and I am unlikely to get that money back later. So I want to understand where I stand and what my best next step would be. Thank you so much!

I’ve been thinking about your situation and the legal avenues open to you. 

Keep paying your rent otherwise you’ll open up the Section 8 route for your landlord. If he tries a Section 21 it’ll fail because hasn’t protected your deposit. 

If your tenancy agreement includes the garden and the garden is now full of sheep I’d say that’s a breach of quiet enjoyment and potentially harassment. However, what I think would get more traction is using section 9A of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.  Your landlord has a responsibility to ensure that your home is fit for habitation. Where there are hazards, and I think a garden full of sheep and sheep poo could constitute a hazard, in a property that make it unsafe or unfit, the local authority can take action. 

Local authorities use the Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS) to assess hazards in rented homes. There are 29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” You could contact the local authority to see if they’ll take enforcement action either their environmental health department or private renting team. 

You can also take court action against your landlord and I’d recommend you speak with a solicitor specialising in tenancy law if this is a course of action you want to take. 

I think the sheep were in the garden while the OP was on holiday. not permanently. 

_Penny_Dreadful

sheramber said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

SarahBDE said:

Hi everyone. I hope you can help me save on solicitors fees with this one. 

I am an undemanding tenant and have put up with a lot over the past 2 years while always paying on time. During a business trip away, the landlord then took the ultimate Micky and placed livestock into my private garden. He'd trespassed multiple times before, but this took the biscuit. The livestock caused extensive damage, not only to the garden but to personal property. The garden is covered in faeces and unusable. I finally had enough and was no longer willing to put up with any of this, so I wrote up a formal complaint, copying the estate (landlord is an estate tenant who is subletting, with permission, to me) and council (I am waiting on date for inspection). The letter is 6 pages long, outlining a number of legal breaches, fire safety hazards, illegal clauses in the tenancy agreement, repairs he illegally charged me for. The list goes on. When writing my letter of complaint and checking my tenancy agreement and the breaches in the house agains the law I realised that, legally, the house probably counts as uninhabitable.  

In my complaint letter I gave them 14 days to come up with a plan. I wasn't unreasonable, I didn't expect them to fix everything in that time, just come up with a plan. They ignored it all and promised to the estate they are looking into solutions. The two weeks came and went without any direct communication with me or suggested solutions. Therefore, I requested the council to step in and they have raised a job number, though the inspection has not yet happened. I also wrote another letter listing the cost of the damages that I expect to be reimbursed for and also suggested a 50% rent reduction until the issues have been fixed. I'd been reading up on rent reductions and it was my understanding that a court would grant 50-100% in cases with similarly severe breaches and as long as I communicate it ahead of time, I am legally able to do it. They have now emailed me back, accusing me of bullying and harassment and saying they don't agree with any of it and if I hate it so much, why don't I serve notice. Apparently their solicitor will be in touch with me soon. Fine. 

I have spoken to CAB and Shelter, which have been helpful to a point. They both say to not reduce rent under any circumstance. However, I am living in horrendous conditions that don't warrant the full rent payment and I am unlikely to get that money back later. So I want to understand where I stand and what my best next step would be. Thank you so much!

I’ve been thinking about your situation and the legal avenues open to you. 

Keep paying your rent otherwise you’ll open up the Section 8 route for your landlord. If he tries a Section 21 it’ll fail because hasn’t protected your deposit. 

If your tenancy agreement includes the garden and the garden is now full of sheep I’d say that’s a breach of quiet enjoyment and potentially harassment. However, what I think would get more traction is using section 9A of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.  Your landlord has a responsibility to ensure that your home is fit for habitation. Where there are hazards, and I think a garden full of sheep and sheep poo could constitute a hazard, in a property that make it unsafe or unfit, the local authority can take action. 

Local authorities use the Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS) to assess hazards in rented homes. There are 29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” You could contact the local authority to see if they’ll take enforcement action either their environmental health department or private renting team. 

You can also take court action against your landlord and I’d recommend you speak with a solicitor specialising in tenancy law if this is a course of action you want to take. 

I think the sheep were in the garden while the OP was on holiday. not permanently. 

Yes, I think you’re right. 

SarahBDE

sheramber said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

SarahBDE said:

Hi everyone. I hope you can help me save on solicitors fees with this one. 

I am an undemanding tenant and have put up with a lot over the past 2 years while always paying on time. During a business trip away, the landlord then took the ultimate Micky and placed livestock into my private garden. He'd trespassed multiple times before, but this took the biscuit. The livestock caused extensive damage, not only to the garden but to personal property. The garden is covered in faeces and unusable. I finally had enough and was no longer willing to put up with any of this, so I wrote up a formal complaint, copying the estate (landlord is an estate tenant who is subletting, with permission, to me) and council (I am waiting on date for inspection). The letter is 6 pages long, outlining a number of legal breaches, fire safety hazards, illegal clauses in the tenancy agreement, repairs he illegally charged me for. The list goes on. When writing my letter of complaint and checking my tenancy agreement and the breaches in the house agains the law I realised that, legally, the house probably counts as uninhabitable.  

In my complaint letter I gave them 14 days to come up with a plan. I wasn't unreasonable, I didn't expect them to fix everything in that time, just come up with a plan. They ignored it all and promised to the estate they are looking into solutions. The two weeks came and went without any direct communication with me or suggested solutions. Therefore, I requested the council to step in and they have raised a job number, though the inspection has not yet happened. I also wrote another letter listing the cost of the damages that I expect to be reimbursed for and also suggested a 50% rent reduction until the issues have been fixed. I'd been reading up on rent reductions and it was my understanding that a court would grant 50-100% in cases with similarly severe breaches and as long as I communicate it ahead of time, I am legally able to do it. They have now emailed me back, accusing me of bullying and harassment and saying they don't agree with any of it and if I hate it so much, why don't I serve notice. Apparently their solicitor will be in touch with me soon. Fine. 

I have spoken to CAB and Shelter, which have been helpful to a point. They both say to not reduce rent under any circumstance. However, I am living in horrendous conditions that don't warrant the full rent payment and I am unlikely to get that money back later. So I want to understand where I stand and what my best next step would be. Thank you so much!

I’ve been thinking about your situation and the legal avenues open to you. 

Keep paying your rent otherwise you’ll open up the Section 8 route for your landlord. If he tries a Section 21 it’ll fail because hasn’t protected your deposit. 

If your tenancy agreement includes the garden and the garden is now full of sheep I’d say that’s a breach of quiet enjoyment and potentially harassment. However, what I think would get more traction is using section 9A of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.  Your landlord has a responsibility to ensure that your home is fit for habitation. Where there are hazards, and I think a garden full of sheep and sheep poo could constitute a hazard, in a property that make it unsafe or unfit, the local authority can take action. 

Local authorities use the Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS) to assess hazards in rented homes. There are 29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” You could contact the local authority to see if they’ll take enforcement action either their environmental health department or private renting team. 

You can also take court action against your landlord and I’d recommend you speak with a solicitor specialising in tenancy law if this is a course of action you want to take. 

I think the sheep were in the garden while the OP was on holiday. not permanently. 

Yes, I was away on a work trip. I insisted they'd be gone when I get back or I'd get the police involved and he did remove them the morning of the day I returned. 

SarahBDE

Thank you so much everyone for your helpful comments. 
The matter is with the council and I spoke to them on Friday to get an idea on timelines. He also advised to continue paying my rent in full which I will do. I originally sent a letter suggesting the rent reduction, which the landlord could have agreed to. They didn't (of course) so I will continue to pay. 
I thought the ombudsman only deals with social housing, which this is not. Anyway, it's with the council now and I if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to update you. 
I found this particularly interesting: "29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” The guy from the council specifically mentioned that the matter of the sheep is a civil matter and not something he can get involved in. 

owls1867

SarahBDE said:

Thank you so much everyone for your helpful comments. 
The matter is with the council and I spoke to them on Friday to get an idea on timelines. He also advised to continue paying my rent in full which I will do. I originally sent a letter suggesting the rent reduction, which the landlord could have agreed to. They didn't (of course) so I will continue to pay. 
I thought the ombudsman only deals with social housing, which this is not. Anyway, it's with the council now and I if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to update you. 
I found this particularly interesting: "29 prescribed HHSRS hazards of which number 15 is, “domestic hygiene, pests and refuse.” The guy from the council specifically mentioned that the matter of the sheep is a civil matter and not something he can get involved in. 

Glad its sorted. 

Yes - the HHSRS issues will be listed as part of the S12 notice when the council visit and the hazards within the property. (In my previous post I put that its a S239, but a S239 is just a notice of inspection that will be sent to the landlord when its booked in). 

Some will be classed as Category 1 (the most urgent) and others as Category 2's. The landlord will then have a timeframe to do the work (usually 4/6 weeks) and then for the council to re-inspect to sign off.