British Gas, Economy 7 and smart meters (again)

Docker49

We have  a smart meter fitted last week. We have economy 7.  Since the new meter went in the immersion heaters have not turned on. Previously the immersion switch stayed on all the time and the power to it was automatically energised when the off peak rate started. It seems that this is not happening since the new meter.  We want this to be fixed asap as we have no hot water.  British Gas  is perfectly happy because they can see two usage figures from the smart meter -  therefore it all works. 

After a day of talking to badly trained advisors, using chats, writing emails, and getting nowhere,  I think I may have missed out some magic words to get  BG to understand the problem.  Has any one any advice based on experience of  how to communicate this issue to British Gas ?  Is there a formula (saying 'energise' in the right place, for example) that might work?  If I say ' E7 consumer unit' will that just confuse them more ?  How do I get them to accept that their smart meter isn't smart enough ?

Billxx

Prior to the installation of the smart meter, did you have one or two meters?  I only ask as my son had two meters, a day rate meter and a night meter.  We had to get an electrician to re-route all the power to a single meter prior to the swapping out to a smart meter.

QrizB

Welcome to the forum.

Can you post a photo of your new meter, of your consumer units and of all the wiring that connects them to the meter?

Docker49

Thanks for replies.

I can't post a photo as we have a lot of wires contained within major trunking marked 'Danger 230 volts'.  I'm not supposed to open that.  We are really complicated - three phase, solar PV,  and economy 7.  It was a bit of a  job for the engineer to put in the smart meter and we assume that something went amiss.  But getting BG to understand the problem is stumping us. 

We did have one meter  before. 

QrizB

OK.

It's hard to be specific without a lot more information, but it sounds as though the circuit that powers the immersion heater has either been (a) switched to the E7 off-peak only supply or (b ) not connected at all.

You can try explaining this to BG and get them to send someone out to investigate. BG however might say it's not their problem, and that you need to get an electrician privately.

Getting your own electrician out is probably the quicker and easier option but will leave you out of pocket unless the electrician can document exactly what needs fixing and you can then convince BG that it's their fault and to reimburse you.

Scot_39

Docker49 said:

Thanks for replies.

I can't post a photo as we have a lot of wires contained within major trunking marked 'Danger 230 volts'.  I'm not supposed to open that.  We are really complicated - three phase, solar PV,  and economy 7.  It was a bit of a  job for the engineer to put in the smart meter and we assume that something went amiss.  But getting BG to understand the problem is stumping us. 

We did have one meter  before. 

E7 on the simplest level is just a tariff.  Two rates and a set of off peak window times.

You are probably aware - that traditionally E7 meters - often twin meters or a meter and a timeswich - drove both 24/7 live and a time restricted feed - and that restricted drove things like NSH, and HW tank immersion heaters.

However many more modern E7 installs have no restricted circuits and so a 4 port meter can be used for those - so only one 24/7 live output.

On a single phase supply - the meters that drive the restricted feed - come in two forms 

- ones that drive 24/7 live and time restricted circuits (only live for 7 hours on E7) on board (so both 100A tails attached to meter - a so called 5 port design 

- and ones that drive 24/7 live and an auxiliary contractor - to drive the restricted (off-board 100A tail switching).  See a couple of examples here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81357476/#Comment_81357476

And ones for a modern install that only drive one output live 24/7 and no time restricted circuits - can be simple 4 port models (or the above types without auxiliary contactor or 5th port connected).

However I have no idea what a three phase single E7 meter would look like these days - or do in terms of switching outputs. So out of interest I hunted around google for 3 phase meters and possible configs.

One of the first models on the UK market apparently according to google was the Aclara SGM1430 series (that early bit - a google AI comment - so not guaranteed true)  - two of its models supported either 1 or 2 2A auxiliary circuit controls (so could drive contactors like the Proteus for a restricted supply in theory) - see page 19 for that model.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/pwxulcskoycq/6b2I0q0by2DXtTNXqMz9E8/e92efee2964c12736c2d364dae82843f/Aclara-SMETS2-Three-Phase-Electric.pdf

So the meter would have 8 thick tails - 3 live in 3live out and 1 neutral in/out - and maybe some thinner upto 2A wires - as per the link to the Proteus - 1 or 2 of them on auxiliary load control connections on the upper 2 models.

Its just idle speculation without photos - but perhaps an old contactor that was driven from one of the phases - no longer is.

As well as nagging BG - given the complexity you might need to have your own electrician check out the system.  If your not comfortable with removing the trunking and tracing / looking for old or new missing connections.

Can you at least tell us the meter model - maybe we can find a description of how it is connected / operates ?

Can you see the bottom of the meter at all - if so how many thick meter tails it has connected to it - and if like the Aclara - if it has any thinner 2A type connections ?

Single phase E7 used to be a bit on area of concern with BG and smart meters, for 3 phase E7 I suspect even more of an issue for many suppliers.