Fischer heating - please help

Scot_39

hrm1987 said:

Scot_39 said:

hrm1987 said:

I’ve literally taken a picture of everything it shows so not sure what else I’m meant to be looking for. Am I being incredibly dense?!

Absolutely understand we need to change them soon, but in the meantime I don’t want to be paying extortionate amounts if we shouldn’t be / can be on a better tariff or just are doing something stupid at the moment we can change. 

Also any advice on what to change then to is welcome. Gas is not an option (quoted 50k to get it installed!). But first and foremost, get bills under control so we can afford not to eat just beans on toast!!

Try slowing down - in case your jumping across settings - you need to select the display item by the text when pressing say the 6 or 9 ? - then wait for the reading - for that metric - then select the next metric and wait for it to change to the number.

In the above your second photo shows IMP kVARh - which isn't the reading you require.  it Might just have cycled to that menu - but check again.

This is the first number that comes up. The IMP one kVARh is 00029

OK that makes sense - kVARh should be fairly low.

Readings as follows:
The one starting 009 is after pressing 9 once.
The one starting 007 is the R01 reading.
The one starting 0014 is the R02 reading.

If your right the R01 + R02 = 73006.2 + 14004 = 87010 doesn match total import, but I think you have misread the R02, and its actually = 19009.0  = 92015.2

Your total import on the 6 button = 92015.2

Look again at the Imp R02 number - it has the two dashes at the top of 4 digits similar to the leading 00s - and so those readings are all consistent.

You might want to take another set and see if they both increment in a couple of days time.

1) Meter and history 

Re E7 - your meter is whats known as a 4 port meter - but it does support E7 style tariffs - and using an external contactor - driven by a low amp output cable from the meter - which you do not have - it can even cope with restricted circuits for old NSH.

The fact the R2 reading c19000 is non zero - suggests in fact at one point the meter was in fact configured for an E7 type tariff.

Its the same model as my E10 - and roughly the same age.

Meter age 2017

The meter itself is actually dated 2017 (manufacture) - and assuming it was installed that year - thats 8 years old.

So 92000 / 8 - annual consumption of 11500 kWh - which is actually high for an electric property (but only because they tend to be smaller on average) - but would be small for a dual fuel home - the median cap being 2700 kWh electric + 11500 kWh for gas - for roughtly 2-3 people in a 2-3 bed home.

The joys of all electric - are you need to be very efficient - or very frgual - or it costs a small fortune.

2) Your initial readings.

When you give you readings to your new supplier - I hope you did give them to the supplier personally if they didnt take a fresh smart reading for the day you moved in.  If moving supplier hese have to be agreed via an intermediary - and sometimes they shift a little.  But if Octopus were the deemed supplier - they might have taken as smart or used the leaving occupoers reading from the previous week.

How far off were they ?

3) 92015 - 91683 = 332 kWh

Thats still on the high side - but a  lot more believable than the 855kWh from your bill July 19th number (92538).

You mention an initial reading of 91724 one day after you moved in - you should have given this to the supplier - not relied on any numbers used by previous occupant / owner.  Technically Octopus if they already were the deemed supplier might have had smart readings anway.

91724 would reduce 332 kWh by another 41 kWh - so just sub 300kWh for the month - not tiny - but not excessive.

300 kWh at say 25p + 1 month SC would be around £90-100.

But you are probably looking at much higher numbers come winter - based on last 7-8 years total meter reading.

4) Going forward

You need to find out why your supplier is using estimated readings and not smart ones from the meter ?

Octopus actually mention in some of the FAQs for some of their tariffs they fully support the smets1 secure liberty meter series on some of their smart TOU tariffs - like Cosy.

Sometimes it can take a little time to get sorted if moved supplier - but not sure you did move - and 1 month is normally enough in any case.

Hopefully they will get sorted and your next bill will be far more accurate.

You should try actually submitting the 92015 - they might re-issue an accurate bill,  they might need the photo to backit up if not getting the smart readings.

5) You need to look at what you can do to reduce heating use.

And the cost of running what you do use - suggestions as above

hrm1987

Thank you for the above. It sounds like they have got incorrect readings so I’ll supply the actual ones. Just to clarify this should be the ones from R01 and R02 combined and not just by pressing 9?

The previous owner was with outfox the market which is recommended by Fischer. Octopus was our previous supplier so we stayed with them initially just to try and work out usage. The previous owner had high usage - hot water and heating on excessively.

Initially we are happy to try and be frugal though potentially not sustainable long term. What I am confused about is how to be the most economical with water and heating going forward. Fischer suggest E7 isn’t always cheaper. I don’t really understand whether it’s best to be heating water for a longer period and so it doesn’t have to fire too much. Same with heating (long term). Is it better to be on a constant low temperature, or turned off and on as needed?

Just for background, we both work at home so will have consumption during the day, but this will be for normal appliances. 

Thanks for your help so far!

Swipe

hrm1987 said:

The previous owner was with outfox the market which is recommended by Fischer. 

No surprise there considering it is owned by the same people

Reed_Richards

hrm1987 said:

The previous owner was with outfox the market which is recommended by Fischer. Octopus was our previous supplier so we stayed with them initially just to try and work out usage. The previous owner had high usage - hot water and heating on excessively.

On the day you moved in your supplier would have been Outfox the Market.  Some time shortly after that you would have switched to Octopus.  If you gave Octopus enough notice they may have managed to switch your supply on the day you moved in but that is by no means guaranteed.  Your bill should give you dates for their readings so you can see if the date of your first reading really is the day you moved in.  If not, expect a bill from Outfox the Market.  Unless you used 41 kWh on your first day, it's a bit concerning that the Octopus initial reading is that much less than the reading you took yourself.   

daveyjp

With an R2 reading it looks like a previous property owner was another who was hoodwinked into replacing useable and cost effective E7 storage heaters with total rip off Fischer heaters using expensive day rate power.

First job is to get updated bills based on the current reading and then consider alternatives.

YellowCarBlueCar

hrm1987 said:

Thank you for the above. It sounds like they have got incorrect readings so I’ll supply the actual ones. Just to clarify this should be the ones from R01 and R02 combined and not just by pressing 9?

The previous owner was with outfox the market which is recommended by Fischer. Octopus was our previous supplier so we stayed with them initially just to try and work out usage. The previous owner had high usage - hot water and heating on excessively.

Initially we are happy to try and be frugal though potentially not sustainable long term. What I am confused about is how to be the most economical with water and heating going forward. Fischer suggest E7 isn’t always cheaper. I don’t really understand whether it’s best to be heating water for a longer period and so it doesn’t have to fire too much. Same with heating (long term). Is it better to be on a constant low temperature, or turned off and on as needed?

Just for background, we both work at home so will have consumption during the day, but this will be for normal appliances. 

Thanks for your help so far!

For ongoing heating you probably have a few options - you need to decide how much you're prepared to pay up-front for future savings.

First your E7 question.  If you didn't know, E7 provides cheaper electricity overnight, so won't help with your current heating, especially if you're home during the day (though you could shift your water heating to overnight assuming you have a well-insulated hot water cylinder).  To make use of E7 you'll need to replace your heaters with night storage heaters which heat up a thermal mass overnight, and allow the heat to escape during the day.  Probably the least expensive to install, but also the least controllable.

Alternatively you could install more conventional central heating with radiators but would also need outside space for an oil tank (I wouldn't go with LPG).  Or you could use a heat pump instead of an oil-fired boiler, which still uses electricity but in a more efficient way.  Biomass boilers might also be an option, but I don't know a lot about them.

One other option might be an air-to-air heat pump - which doesn't need radiators but is more like a air-conditioning installation.  There are fewer suppliers of these and you some house layouts don't lend themselves to installation.

Scot_39

hrm1987 said:

Thank you for the above. It sounds like they have got incorrect readings so I’ll supply the actual ones. Just to clarify this should be the ones from R01 and R02 combined and not just by pressing 9?

The previous owner was with outfox the market which is recommended by Fischer. Octopus was our previous supplier so we stayed with them initially just to try and work out usage. The previous owner had high usage - hot water and heating on excessively.

Initially we are happy to try and be frugal though potentially not sustainable long term. What I am confused about is how to be the most economical with water and heating going forward. Fischer suggest E7 isn’t always cheaper. I don’t really understand whether it’s best to be heating water for a longer period and so it doesn’t have to fire too much. Same with heating (long term). Is it better to be on a constant low temperature, or turned off and on as needed?

Just for background, we both work at home so will have consumption during the day, but this will be for normal appliances. 

Thanks for your help so far!

1) the total import is the same as r01+r02.

But as above you need to be careful about reading the display, it's old school lcd and it's angles and plastic cover dont help.  You thought it statarted 0014 for r02, it's actually I believe 0019..., so total 92015.2 in both cases.
If they were given total and its single rate, just use total.
Which will be available on the ihd if youve got one, r01 and r02 individually are sadly not.

Id ring it in to Octopus this month and discuss why they aren't getting smart readings automatically from your smart meter.  Its smets1, but the model should have been integrated to DCC, but even tgen it's a model series Octopus supported on smets1 anyway at one stage.

2) Fischer suggests...

To misquote Mandy Rice Davis using they, not he
"Well they would, wouldn't they ?"

For many people, especially those around at home all day, that would normally not be the case.

But to be fair, say in a well insulated flat with a sunny exposure, where out all day at work say, and only want heat for few hours in the morning and evening it could be.

What you dont want is using e7 at peak rate to run hw heating or space heating.

On say Octopus e7, you'd pay around 13.8p for night rate, 32.8 for day peak, on SR cap c25.6p - Octopus single rate ?   (+/- regional rate variations).

Storage heaters and say hw tank based hw would charge at the e7 c13.8p,  your i guess paying 25.xp,  but at least not the worst case scenario, your not paying the 32.8p. 

So yes with their heaters used heavily during the day e7 would ve a bad choice.

@QrizB did some revealing fag packet comparisons of the e7 with storage, e7 with no storage and single rate here that he updates periodically, from the link in his post signature here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

I just read recently in their Cosy faq it might be open to those with electric radiators If your going to stay live panel and "live" water heating Id maybe think of seeing if Octopus will, accept you onto their Cosy time of use tariff and try timing your hw and heating panels to their 3 off peak periods 4-7am 1-4 pm and c10pm - midnight. For instance my region c13p.   The day rates similar to cap svt single rate too - so if can  avoid their peak 4-7 window for coking, washing etc - you might be quids in

Scot_39

Oh and other suplliers also do tou tariffs with different rates and different low rate periods, but used it as your already with them as your supplier.

KittenChops

Netexporter said:

Get an air-source heat pump. You'll get a £7500 grant towards it.

Happy to be corrected but - I don't think OP would be eligible, as they currently have an all electric system - I thought the grants were for those switching from gas/oil 

ETA - my statement above is rubbish, please ignore!!

WiserMiser

KittenChops said:

Netexporter said:

Get an air-source heat pump. You'll get a £7500 grant towards it.

Happy to be corrected but - I don't think OP would be eligible, as they currently have an all electric system - I thought the grants were for those switching from gas/oil 

"You’re eligible for a grant if both of the following are true. You must:

• own the property you’re applying for (including if it’s a business, a second home, or a property you rent out to tenants)

• be replacing fossil fuel heating systems - such as oil, gas, electric or LPG (liquefied petroleum gas)"

Source: https://www.gov.uk/apply-boiler-upgrade-scheme/check-if-youre-eligible