REFUND from Silver Service Singers

A_Geordie

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

There's a range of factors to determine what is reasonable notice such as the nature of the contract, how the contract was concluded i.e. the more informal, the less notice required, nature of the relationship such as B2B or B2C, the duration of the relationship such as if it was a one off transaction or a regular one. 

Reaonable notice is not based on the notion of how in-demand the company if that's what you're suggesting, but even if it is I think that goes against point since the availability of work would be plentiful. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

DullGreyGuy

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

Obviously not but it could represent 90% or more of their business and be charged at a premium. 

Even if you include the other large gatherings where hiring a musical group may be a consideration most of those will be planned further in advance than just 3 months. Remember when my parents were organising their silver wedding anniversary party 9 months in advance a lot of the venues were already fully booked. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

DullGreyGuy said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

Obviously not but it could represent 90% or more of their business and be charged at a premium. 

Even if you include the other large gatherings where hiring a musical group may be a consideration most of those will be planned further in advance than just 3 months. Remember when my parents were organising their silver wedding anniversary party 9 months in advance a lot of the venues were already fully booked. 

What does the endless hypotheticals have to do with the principle?

There is choice, claim costs and write off the profit, claim loss of profit but attempt to mitigate.

If they take a rate cut on a rebook that's part of the company's loss that the consumer is responsible for. If they can't rebook bad luck for the consumer. 

Hoenir

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

DullGreyGuy said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

Obviously not but it could represent 90% or more of their business and be charged at a premium. 

Even if you include the other large gatherings where hiring a musical group may be a consideration most of those will be planned further in advance than just 3 months. Remember when my parents were organising their silver wedding anniversary party 9 months in advance a lot of the venues were already fully booked. 

What does the endless hypotheticals have to do with the principle?

If only running a business were so simple as often gets suggested.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hoenir said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

DullGreyGuy said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

Obviously not but it could represent 90% or more of their business and be charged at a premium. 

Even if you include the other large gatherings where hiring a musical group may be a consideration most of those will be planned further in advance than just 3 months. Remember when my parents were organising their silver wedding anniversary party 9 months in advance a lot of the venues were already fully booked. 

What does the endless hypotheticals have to do with the principle?

If only running a business were so simple as often gets suggested.  

Which has nothing to do with consumer rights. 

Maybe we should just start telling people not to bother because businesses have a tough time? 

saajan_12

A_Geordie said:

JRSunflower said:

No contract has been signed, just a full payment of £1,200.00 which I was pushed to do

Think it's important to point out that if this was agreed verbally then unless at the time of making the payment in full and the company informed the OP that by making the payment they contract is subject to the terms and conditions online (in these types of scenarios, I very rarely see that happen), then those terms did not form part of the contract.

In that case, the OP could have an argument that they had a right to cancel by giving reasonable notice and 3 months is usually considered reasonable for most contracts, ultimately having a right to refund. If the OP has witnesses who were present to corroborate that story, the OP may have a case to argue. 

You're right that the full online T&Cs may not have formed part of the verbal contract (depending on what was said). So if it was just an agreement to perform on x date for y hours in return for £1200 with no cancellation terms mentioned, then there is simply no cancellation presumed into the contract. Payments are not inherently refundable by default, jsut the opposite. So a reasonable notice period doesnt' come into it. 

A_Geordie

saajan_12 said:

You're right that the full online T&Cs may not have formed part of the verbal contract (depending on what was said). So if it was just an agreement to perform on x date for y hours in return for £1200 with no cancellation terms mentioned, then there is simply no cancellation presumed into the contract. Payments are not inherently refundable by default, jsut the opposite. So a reasonable notice period doesnt' come into it. 

If I am understanding you correctly, you are equating this one off transaction with a fixed term contract. It is true that with fixed term contracts the courts are unlikely to imply a right a termination though it is not impossible. Not all single event transactions are deemed to be a fixed term contract if there is no agreed start/end time.

The court would need to determine whether the parties intended the contract as being capable of termination by looking at the facts and evidence. Leaving aside the question of whether the online T&Cs were incorporated into the OP's contract, the company's terms specifically outline both company and customer rights of cancellation and that alone is indicative that the company could have intended that their agreements with their customers verbal or written was capable of termination.

It would be strange to suggest that the company did not intend for there to be no rights of cancellation for verbal contracts but rights of cancellation if it was written, particularly if a lot of contracts are done verbally over the phone or in person as that puts the company at risk themselves if they do not perform and especially for services like this where there can be unforeseen circumstances such as a lost voice, injury, illness etc.

lincroft1710

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Wedding arrangements are normally made 18 months to two years in advance (if not longer for a popular service or venue). 

So if dispute that three months is reasonable notice. 

Weddings is the only place they are allowed to sing? 

They are singing waiters so attendance at weddings is likely to be their main source of income