Money Moral Dilemma: How do I tell my neighbours I can't afford to pay towards replacing our fence?

MSE_Kelvin

This week's MoneySaver who wants advice asks...

My back garden is separated from my neighbours by a fence that blew over in a storm a few months back. It's a shared fence, but my neighbours paid for it before I bought my house five years ago. They've asked me to pay for half of the replacement fence, but I can't afford to - even food is a bit of a luxury for me right now. I told them this, and they offered to pay for it and said I can owe them, but that would be yet another debt to add to my existing debts. Is there a way to say that I simply can't afford to pay for it without causing friction?

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MeteredOut

This may seem like a radical idea, but reiterate to them you can't afford it. If they want to replace it, they can, but you're not repaying them and you're happy with no fence.

Or use a few bits of cane a bit of string to mark the boundary.

WIAWSNB

If your deeds do not state that you 'must' maintain, or contribute to, a physical boundary, then you do not have to. The sole exception, as far as I know, is if you need to keep the boundary secure to prevent your animals - and that includes 'kids' of all types - within your own land.
Neighbourly convention drives most agreements on maintaining fences, but no-one 'needs' to have a fence.
These are tough times for lots of folk, so if you can genuinely say you cannot contribute to this fence, then that's it. You are fortunate in having a neighbour who can afford to, and is 'happy' to do so.
So, a great big, "Genuinely sorry, but I simply cannot afford to contribute. If this changes, I'd be happy to do so."
Absolutely no commitment or promise to do so. Of course, if you somehow come in to spare money, then you should.
Keep some things in mind;
1) You don't have to. 
2) They don't have to.
3) You can't afford to.
4) They can afford to.
5) They 'want' this fence.
6) That's it.

Shell1989

I’m surprised you say the fence is a joint responsibility because usually with a purchase of a house you are responsible for one side or the other - it helps to avoid situations exactly like this. Check your title plan for whether you are in fact responsible, and then go from there. You might be lucky - it might be the neighbours problem!

Wilko9999

If they've already done the fence without you agreeing to share the cost it's their tough luck. How do you know they used a reputable and less costly person?? As for Juli1960....... no way would you claim on house insurance (unless the fence is 100% your responsibility) or start selling your things on eBay. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

WIAWSNB said:

If your deeds do not state that you 'must' maintain, or contribute to, a physical boundary, then you do not have to. The sole exception, as far as I know, is if you need to keep the boundary secure to prevent your animals - and that includes 'kids' of all types - within your own land.
Neighbourly convention drives most agreements on maintaining fences, but no-one 'needs' to have a fence.
These are tough times for lots of folk, so if you can genuinely say you cannot contribute to this fence, then that's it. You are fortunate in having a neighbour who can afford to, and is 'happy' to do so.
So, a great big, "Genuinely sorry, but I simply cannot afford to contribute. If this changes, I'd be happy to do so."
Absolutely no commitment or promise to do so. Of course, if you somehow come in to spare money, then you should.
Keep some things in mind;
1) You don't have to. 
2) They don't have to.
3) You can't afford to.
4) They can afford to.
5) They 'want' this fence.
6) That's it.

This is the answer.

No obligation to do anything unless deeds specifically state requirement to maintain a fence, wall, etc (T marks on title plan without anything further noted doesn’t mean paying for a fence, sticks and string will do) or a fence is required to keep animals (commonly dogs) from roaming free.

If no obligation neighbour can like it or lump it, if you are considering getting in to debt to please someone who doesn’t care you are unnecessarily getting in to debt to appease them any relationship didn’t have value to begin with. 

Jm2207

[Deleted User] said:

My first thought was why don’t you claim on your buildings insurance? Obviously, your premium may rise slightly next time as a result. However, if I was currently short of money that is what I would do. If not, maybe you could try selling some items you don’t use any more and put the money towards the new fence? Maybe consider eBay, as they now no longer charge for advertising with them. If you aren’t sure how to advertise online, you could always summon the help of a younger relative or friend. Good luck ☘️.

Insurance companies don't cover storm damage for fencing.
Your "helpful" suggestions of selling possessions is quite patronising; if you've ever been in a situation where even food is a luxury I'm sure all of these things have been done.

The neighbour will hopefully understand if you say you really can't afford it, ask if they could repair rather than replace this may be much much cheaper or help them see your situation 

RSD7a

You want to avoid friction. Then I recommend you don't take the legalistic routes. Just be honest and say you have no spare money at present and that more debt in the form of a loan would be too much of a burden. Maybe ask if there is any non financial way you could contribute to the cost. Even if there isn't, you'd be showing willing 

TractorBird

I think WIAWSNB is generally correct, but also, if it blew over in a storm, can it not be put back up with some repairs? Most things are repairable with only some effort or if not, for much less than replacement so unless it was a really rubbish fence that they did before... It sounds like your neighbours are not in touch with the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" environmental consciousness. Basically it is not easy to get through to people who seem to have spare cash that you don't. Perhaps you can say that you appreciate that cash is short for everyone these days and why don't you all see if it can be repaired instead, and that approach is much more environmentally friendly/responsible? 
Check your deeds if you can or if there's a map with a 'T' mark to indicate boundaries (ordnance survey, try the library?) and who the fence belongs to or perhaps try the Citizens'Advice? If it ends up being your responsibility then it is absolutely your decision to see if it can be put back up/patched up? Is there a handy friend or relation who might be able to help? Some insurance covers storm damage but claims can often not be worth it  (by the time you have paid the excess and then end up with increased premium in the future) along with the insurance company would possibly argue that it was of poor quality in the first place?

ripongrammargirl

To start with, I’m not sure if the person suggesting “sell on eBay” works for the company, but that is the last place you should go to now. Despite all the glossy adverts stating free to sell it might be, but it won’t sell unless you pay to promote item- no buyers now anyway with their “fee” for them that states eBay covers any damage/loss- they don’t as plenty of forums say so; plus their new rip off system with postage which is now only available through them at the cost and couriers they choose was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of ebayers, who like me, closed their accounts and walked away. Check out the many forum threads about their “simple delivery” which is now the only option, which equates to zero protection for seller if buyer wants to complain, so you always lose (don’t believe any “positive” stories) it’s a total joke what they have done so avoid at all costs as you will sell nothing because nobody is buying and they have lost a massive number of members because of all this……
Anyway, first of all, you didn’t say how much of the fence has gone. Is it in panels so it’s just a case of a new panel to slot in? The whole thing? What quality was it/ how was it made (panels/ overlapping slats/ slats with gaps in between etc). If it’s just a few bits then maybe put some potted plants there (birthday/ Christmas gifts perhaps; or your recycle bins etc if it’s necessary to keep anything inside yours or their gardens.
 If it’s a fence separating two gardens back to back and they put the fence up before you moved in then it’s their responsibility as it was there previously; unless it is mentioned by your solicitor or deeds that is has to be shared costs? Also are you a homeowner or a renter? If you are renting, then it’s the landlord’s responsibility, so bring it to his/her attention and inform the neighbours of this. 
From my understanding of having owned 4 properties, I was always told by my solicitors (and it was always drawn in the deeds) that there were no “shared” fences as every property should have clear boundaries; anything to the left side of your property when facing your front door is your boundary and anything to the right is the neighbour’s responsibility. I’m sure this is standard, at least that is what I was always told (and by estate agents as well) so I would use this rule of thumb. But do check your title deeds as it may not even be your side to worry about. Having said that if it is your boundary but you can’t afford to replace it, as long as it’s tidy and nothing is escaping to upset the neighbours (and likewise from their side) then I would reiterate that you can’t possibly afford a replacement but say if they desperately need one then they will have your permission to erect a new fence on the inside of their boundary line, which is usually a few cm’s forward on to their property of the actual boundary line, which makes them liable for it always. I can say this with confidence as we had a real berk of a neighbour a few years ago who thought he was the law because his parents (who lived miles away) were solicitors. When we informed him politely that we were going to build a very nice wall with wrought iron railings to keep our dog from escaping and stop the tenants he rented the house to, allowing their huge dog to get through the very old fence, he went berserk and informed us we could not build and he would get his parents on to us, who started sending us legal letters (coward, when we spoke face to face). So we took our own legal advice and was told if we moved the wall footings to within a couple of cm’s into our garden from the current boundary, there was nothing he could do as we were building on our own property. We built the wall which looked really great on our side, but because we were banned from going into his garden (he didn’t live there!) then we couldn’t point up the wall and make it great like our side, so it looked a real mess. But as we didn’t have to look at it, who cares? We didn’t even ask him to pay anything towards it either so we got our wall to keep our beloved rescue dog safe and he got a right messy wall side on his property. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Oh, and as retaliation he dug a 40cm wide and deep trench out in his back garden and filled it with tons of heavy stones which eventually started pushing our fence forward with all the gravel spilling on to my beautiful flowers and shrubs. Guess who had to fix that at his own expense?!! Pettiness gets you nowhere!
So to recap, check your deeds to see whose boundary it is. If it’s theirs, happy days, if not you will have to state again there is nothing you can do due to lack of funds. Do NOT put anything in writing (verbal is not an argument that stands up in court) to say you will refund at any point if they insist on building, but DO get it in writing that they alone are taking on the responsibility and costs of this work and that it will be built inside the boundary line etc, so nothing comes back to bite you or future home owners. Explain it how it is, you can’t afford it- end of. 

WIAWSNB

A couple of other points which may be of general help regarding fences;
1) Unless the 'T's on deeds maps are accompanied by written text to explain them, then they are 'legally' meaningless in terms of indicating responsibility or ownership. I took some persuading on this, but it was evidenced to me on another forum, Gardenlaw.
2) The boundary line is an invisible feature, but can sometimes be evidenced very accurately, say if the properties are semi or terraced. In such cases, you can put your posts right up so their backs are 'touching' that line, and the concrete 'founds' for them can pass under and beyond the line. Clearly they should be below ground level. (Whether I'd want to have that argument with a recalcitrant neighbour is another matter...)