Is a lack of an entrance sign an automatic POPLA win (even if clear T&Cs on site)?

mowpow

I've been issued with multiple PCNs for failure to display a permit at an underground car park operated by UKPC. I appealed and due to mitigating circumstances (I do have a valid permit, it just wasn't visible at the time) the PCNs have been reduced to £20 each. I am of course still reluctant to pay given the total remains £100+.

The entrance sign to the underground car park is blocked by scaffolding as the building which the car park sits under is being renovated. I'll follow the usual POPLA template advice and include multiple grounds in my appeals, but I'm wondering if this ground should be enough for success? I'm conscious my car was parked right under signage inside the car park (and UKPC have photographs of that), so I think that does weaken my case.

Gr1pr

Nothing is automatic or guaranteed at Popla these days 

Signage issues and no landowner authority are 2 typical winning points, or failing to comply with Pofa2012,  but its never a slam dunk 

The £20 offer is in line with the joint CoP 

You should check your lease or tenancy agreement to see if you have to display a permit,  or if you have primacy 

Personally,  I would think that if you had parked there a lot before the building works, that you would have prior knowledge of the signage,  unlike myself who has never been there before 

James_Poisson

As above, and for that number of PCN's UKPC might not throw in the towel.

mowpow

Thanks both. I know the general advice on this forum is to not pay the fines but with 6 PCNs I wonder if it is better to take the hit and accept the £20 per PCN offered rather than the effort of facing 6 POPLA rejections & one or more trips to court with debt collectors chasing £600+ from me. 

My car is very clearly parked in front of a sign with T&Cs which generally align with the BPA code so I think I have quite a weak case on signage (aside from the entrance point above). I expect UKPC will have a valid contract in place with the landowner too. 

I know supremacy of leaseholds can be helpful here, but I am a sub tenant so my lease is not with the ultimate land owner, but a private landlord. My lease doesn’t mention a parking space, but I have it in writing from the landlord’s managing agents that I am being leased a space under the lease. So not sure how that helpful will be on balance.

I know UKPC / DCB legal generally discontinue their claims, but wonder if they will be more aggressive here given the number of PCNs. 

Any further advice appreciated as my drive to take this all the way is reducing 

Coupon-mad

Up to you. With multiple PCNs, it will mean a court hearing if you don't pay.

Car1980

I know supremacy of leaseholds can be helpful here, but I am a sub tenant so my lease is not with the ultimate land owner, but a private landlord

So you need to find another owner-occupier in the development and get a copy of their lease. Put a note on the noticeboard or in the lift.

All you need is a sentence like "you have the use of space 123 for parking a motor vehicle" to appear in the lease.

People are generally uninformed and just roll over when the managing company tells everybody they're introducing a permit scheme (who usually get a cut). Plus almost everybody in these developments are renters.

I had a real ding dong back in the day with the CEO of the management company when he wanted to bring his pet clampers on site. My lease simply said I had use of the space, so they had no rights.